Affiliate Managers with their own websites

[Brian]

New to the site and was wondering what everybody's take was on affiliate managers that also operate their own websites. Is this not a conflict of interest? Would affiliates be happy that their competitors had instant access to they stats and earnings, perhaps without them even knowing they were a competitor.

I was actually amazed when I found out that this went on. The industry has somewhat of a tarnished reputation at best, but would affiliates be happy to keep working with any casinos that were involved in these kind of practices?

 

[daikomyo]

If they can earn enough from affiliate they will stop working for someone else. Most of them are thinking it is very easy because they have an access to all data and sometimes can be very frustrating for them to see how someone getting commission every month in let's say 5 or 10x their salary.

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[Brian]

If they can earn enough from affiliate they will stop working for someone else. Most of them are thinking it is very easy because they have an access to all data and sometimes can be very frustrating for them to see how someone getting commission every month in let's say 5 or 10x their salary.

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I agree that is likely the case. But it is something that should be accepted by affiliates? Yes they may be making that kind of money, but it's no doubt through hard work or good ideas. As you say, they have access to all data, so by abusing their position and benefiting from it financially, it doesn't pain the best picture does it. That was the question really, and would you be happy knowing that a competitor is doing that? and can see how you're doing?

 

[Kadabra]

Of course would prefer that not, but nothing you can do about it.

In any case, this thing ain't easy. There is a difference between knowing (some parts) to walking.

 

[AussieDave]

There is a difference between knowing (some parts) to walking.

That is spot on.
It's why 100 gung-ho newbies could commence today, and in 12 months time, at best, maybe 3 remain.

 

[Brian]

That is spot on.
It's why 100 gung-ho newbies could commence today, and in 12 months time, at best, maybe 3 remain.

Yes I whole heartedly agree, but looking at it from an ethics points of view, should the casinos these people work for even allow it due to a conflict of interest and an abuse of position? Whilst maybe only 3 new sites survive, if they are owned and worked upon by people who who can see what successful affiliates are up to, then that has to be wrong and an issue.

 

[Kadabra]

My guess there are two options here:
1. The casino company is the one behind the affiliate sites (at least partially).
2. The company not aware that one of their employees running an affiliate site.

I doubt there is anyone that would like to pay salary of an affiliate manager that is busy with his own sites and gaining info from companies accounts.

 

[Brian]

My guess there are two options here:
1. The casino company is the one behind the affiliate sites (at least partially).
2. The company not aware that one of their employees running an affiliate site.

I doubt there is anyone that would like to pay salary of an affiliate manager that is busy with his own sites and gaining info from companies accounts.

Either way, neither of these options paint the industry or the casinos that are involved in these practices in a great light. People do moan about over regulating but it really is an industry that never helps itself. Licensing affiliates would help put an end to behaviour like this, but until that happens I guess you never really know who you're dealing with, and just what that motives are when approaching you for a partnership.

 

[Strider1973]

Licensing affiliates is also not a solution because as an AM you can always have a familiy member or a friend own the affiliate account.

I'd rather expect the affiliate programs to have their employees agree to a non-compete clause (well it's not competition with their employer, its competition with the partners of the employer).
You could also argue that an AM who runs own websites knows much better about the need of affiliates... but as Kadabra said, do you want to pay a salary to an affiliate manager who is busy with his own sites ?

 

[Brian]

Licensing affiliates is also not a solution because as an AM you can always have a familiy member or a friend own the affiliate account.

I'd rather expect the affiliate programs to have their employees agree to a non-compete clause (well it's not competition with their employer, its competition with the partners of the employer).
You could also argue that an AM who runs own websites knows much better about the need of affiliates... but as Kadabra said, do you want to pay a salary to an affiliate manager who is busy with his own sites ?

I guess that is true and anybody could run a site. It would appear that casinos are doing it though, was doing the rounds among a few I'd seen that L & L Europe have a couple of guys with their own sites.

 

[Brian]

I guess that is true and anybody could run a site. It would appear that casinos are doing it though, was doing the rounds among a few I'd seen that L & L Europe have a couple of guys with their own sites.

Messaged with a few people since posting yesterday who said they had now severed ties and stopped working with L & L Europe, as they felt it was unethical that the casinos were allowing their affiliate managers to moonlight with their own sites whilst having sensitive information at their disposal. Who can really blame them.

 

[Routy]

theoretically, the casino is your largest competitor.
the casino has the funds to run such operation, they can save 30%-40% a month(!) on affiliate traffic, yet most of them prefer to use affiliate traffic.

as an affiliate SaaS I hear that every time a new affiliate is signed up to my platform.
truth is that in 2020 there are no secrets. Using SEMRush and aHref I can see exactly what you have done, what new article you published, see your BL, your ranked keywords, and CPC.
yes you feel "exposed" but that's only on iGaming.

 

[Brian]

theoretically, the casino is your largest competitor.
the casino has the funds to run such operation, they can save 30%-40% a month(!) on affiliate traffic, yet most of them prefer to use affiliate traffic.

as an affiliate SaaS I hear that every time a new affiliate is signed up to my platform.
truth is that in 2020 there are no secrets. Using SEMRush and aHref I can see exactly what you have done, what new article you published, see your BL, your ranked keywords, and CPC.
yes you feel "exposed" but that's only on iGaming.

Again very fair and true points. If the casino chose to do that, which you do see with them some of them having a blog section on their site, then fair enough. But the point really is, should an affiliate manager be able to use the information that you talk of to set up a site of their own site and make money from it? Using the people you work for as a front to access sensitive information for your won gain has to be seen as an issue doesn't it? Or maybe that's why the industry gets itself in a mess time and time again, as it sees no wrong in anything that it does.

 

[Routy]

we can argue for hours if that's ok for AM to be also an affiliate. with almost 12 years of experience on the iGamaing industry, I'll say "let them try".

I keep saying that to my affiliate client, the only sensitive data (with the affiliate program) is your email and password. even though bank details are considered as "top secret", in most cases you can't do sh**t with it.

stats worth nothing if you can control them, I'll explain.
let's say I'm an L&L AM and I know my affiliate is doing 1K clicks, 500 signups, and 100 FTD. so I'll try to track his steps to see how to do that for myself.
now be as creative as you can and think of:
A. what the affiliates did to get to the point of sending this kind of traffic
B. how much time and money you need to invest to compete with his traffic
C. do you really need to know his click-signup-FTD to do that?

as is see it? he can make more money trading your email address (aff papa?) rather than compete your traffic.




from the other on (self advertise warning).
think of what you could achieve if you, as an affiliate, knew that brand X conversion rate is XX on page '/slots/' but on page '/online-casinos' it converts XX*1.5

think of knowing that the average deposit amount of players that were sent from slots review of 'starburst' is double than the homepage, that the page that gets most of the traffic has a lower conversion rate from the 3rd page, etc...

if your account manager would have told you: "Brian, I know that I work for XXX but I've heard that YYY works better on your GEO, you better try"

 

[Brian]

All again great points and I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. The overall picture I guess I'm saying is that regardless of whether you can make a site pay or not from being in that position, should you even be allowed to try?

we can argue for hours if that's ok for AM to be also an affiliate. with almost 12 years of experience on the iGamaing industry, I'll say "let them try".

I keep saying that to my affiliate client, the only sensitive data (with the affiliate program) is your email and password. even though bank details are considered as "top secret", in most cases you can't do sh**t with it.

stats worth nothing if you can control them, I'll explain.
let's say I'm an L&L AM and I know my affiliate is doing 1K clicks, 500 signups, and 100 FTD. so I'll try to track his steps to see how to do that for myself.
now be as creative as you can and think of:
A. what the affiliates did to get to the point of sending this kind of traffic
B. how much time and money you need to invest to compete with his traffic
C. do you really need to know his click-signup-FTD to do that?

as is see it? he can make more money trading your email address (aff papa?) rather than compete your traffic.




from the other on (self advertise warning).
think of what you could achieve if you, as an affiliate, knew that brand X conversion rate is XX on page '/slots/' but on page '/online-casinos' it converts XX*1.5

think of knowing that the average deposit amount of players that were sent from slots review of 'starburst' is double than the homepage, that the page that gets most of the traffic has a lower conversion rate from the 3rd page, etc...

if your account manager would have told you: "Brian, I know that I work for XXX but I've heard that YYY works better on your GEO, you better try"

 

[preditor]

I have met affiliate managers having husbands or wifes who run some aff sites and doing pretty decent on bouth $ and SEO. The tips i get from the am can be "well, he/she did like this --->link and its going great, you should try it 2" witch is kind of ok - considering thers nothing to do, deal with it.
However the am´s NEVER mention other affiliates traffic, sites or anything - so some sort of moral is there.
Off topic:
Signing up on many aff´s now, and have always wondered if they can see the password on some platforms? Since e-mails i recive after signup can be plain text with username and password, keeps me wonder if the am can see it.

 

[Routy]

I have met affiliate managers having husbands or wifes who run some aff sites and doing pretty decent on bouth $ and SEO. The tips i get from the am can be "well, he/she did like this --->link and its going great, you should try it 2" witch is kind of ok - considering thers nothing to do, deal with it.
However the am´s NEVER mention other affiliates traffic, sites or anything - so some sort of moral is there.
Off topic:
Signing up on many aff´s now, and have always wondered if they can see the password on some platforms? Since e-mails i recive after signup can be plain text with username and password, keeps me wonder if the am can see it.

usually, the password is hash on the DB. even myself, as the owner of the entire operation can see your password.
but.. if you're getting a plain password on the email the password is, usually, not secured

 

[preditor]

but.. if you're getting a plain password on the email the password is, usually, not secured

I´m using "ghost" e-mails for all accounts i create now days since its easier to track if suddenly starts reciving spam but i have been stupid not using a pw generator

 

[Routy]

I´m using "ghost" e-mails for all accounts i create now days since its easier to track if suddenly starts reciving spam but i have been stupid not using a pw generator

don't be paranoid... you're email always leak eventually

get yourself a Gmail account prefitor@gmail.com whenever you signed up to a program use prefitor+888@gmail.com, prefitor+leovegas@gmail.com, etc...

 

[preditor]

don't be paranoid... you're email always leak eventually

get yourself a Gmail account prefitor@gmail.com whenever you signed up to a program use prefitor+888@gmail.com, prefitor+leovegas@gmail.com, etc...

Great tip! Thanks!!