Anyone else working in the regulated US market?

[MJM]

Any other licensed US affiliates here? The market is really heating up, especially with Indiana opening up to affiliates recently.

I'm looking to connect with other affiliates that work in the US market, especially those that are not associated with Catena/BetterCollective sized companies.

Ask me anything you want about the market in this thread, I"ll do my best to reply with a helpful answer.

We operate a fairly well known national brand in BettingUSA.com and various state related minisites (IndianaBetting.com for example - new/under dev) - and building a much larger network to go along with it.

After years of being a US based affiliate focused on UK/Europe markets - it's an exciting time to be a part of this developing market in the USA. I'll be the first to admit it comes with some challenges (PA licensing process for example) and there is some archaic systems in place (most aff backends are not what we are used to), but it's going to be a gold rush in the next three years.

As a quick overview, as US based affiliates who promote only licensed/regulated operators - we are able to promote the following:

Horse Racing = most states.
DFS/Daily Fantasy as an alternative to sports betting = most states.
Poker = NJ, NV, PA as soon as next week.
Casino = NJ, PA, WV coming soon.
Sports = NJ, PA, IN, WV. Iowa will open to affiliates in about 16 months.
Lottery = MI, PA.

Personally, we build for the future vs the present - 2021 looks to be the year where the US market for affiliates becomes the largest in the world. Anyone else here planning for the future? Drop me a pm if you'd like to connect (not sure I can send any yet, I'm new here as of last week).

 

[bettingappguide]

Any other licensed US affiliates here? The market is really heating up, especially with Indiana opening up to affiliates recently.

I'm looking to connect with other affiliates that work in the US market, especially those that are not associated with Catena/BetterCollective sized companies.

Ask me anything you want about the market in this thread, I"ll do my best to reply with a helpful answer.

We operate a fairly well known national brand in BettingUSA.com and various state related minisites (IndianaBetting.com for example - new/under dev) - and building a much larger network to go along with it.

After years of being a US based affiliate focused on UK/Europe markets - it's an exciting time to be a part of this developing market in the USA. I'll be the first to admit it comes with some challenges (PA licensing process for example) and there is some archaic systems in place (most aff backends are not what we are used to), but it's going to be a gold rush in the next three years.

As a quick overview, as US based affiliates who promote only licensed/regulated operators - we are able to promote the following:

Horse Racing = most states.
DFS/Daily Fantasy as an alternative to sports betting = most states.
Poker = NJ, NV, PA as soon as next week.
Casino = NJ, PA, WV coming soon.
Sports = NJ, PA, IN, WV. Iowa will open to affiliates in about 16 months.
Lottery = MI, PA.

Personally, we build for the future vs the present - 2021 looks to be the year where the US market for affiliates becomes the largest in the world. Anyone else here planning for the future? Drop me a pm if you'd like to connect (not sure I can send any yet, I'm new here as of last week).

Can only say here that MJM is one of the good guys and very very helpful. Has helped us a lot with any questions we have had about the US. Exciting times ahead

 

[baldidiot]

Ask me anything you want about the market in this thread, I"ll do my best to reply with a helpful answer.

Well since you asked...

This doesn't directly affect me as we're only really in regulated markets at the moment but I'm curious to know how the bad actor clause that a few states have discussed could be applied to affiliates. Specifically:

1. Affiliates that promoted offshore sites post 2006 but stop prior to applying for a license
2. Affiliates that promote (or promoted) offshore sites to non-US users but that have blocked US users

I noticed also whilst nosing around some info that the PA license requires a social security number, which implies US citizen. Are there issues for non-US residents (either individual or company) applying for licenses?

Finally, what are your thoughts on master licenses? Are we likely to see some kind of affiliate network (XL or someone like that) effectively operating as the license holder in exchange for a cut. Or is that unlikely to be allowed?

 

[Roman Doroshenko]

What it takes to get affiliate licenses? How much it costs?
Is it worth switching website generating 1000+ players for US monthly (from all states to grey casinos) to accept only players from a few states but regulated states?

 

[MJM]

Thanks for reaching out Bald! These are really good questions. I'll preface my answers with saying that a. I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice and b. I could be wrong and some of my answers are speculative!

1. Affiliates that promoted offshore sites post 2006 but stop prior to applying for a license.

This one is pretty easy, NJ came out with a "line in the sand" advising affiliates to stop promoting offshore by a date in 2015. If you stopped promoting offshore prior to that date, and more importantly didn't promote offshore alongside regulated offers - you are clear.

I'll add to this my personal opinion - the NJDGE is interested in compliance, not really chasing down people for past actions. If you want to take part in the US regulated market, get compliant yesterday - period. I have long thought that a black friday affiliate scenario is around the corner, and as more states come on board - the likeliness of this increases.

I've heard of scenarios where affiliates who wanted to get clean in 2019 paid a fine, and have a "sit out" period, which makes sense - they approached the DGE directly to do that, as they were large companies. Any enforcement or banning I've seen taken place so far has been with affiliates who try to play both sides by promoting offshore alongside regulated brand offers. That's a huge NO in the DGE's eyes and will result in an enforcement action (google the oddshark ban for an example of this).

(can't post links - tried to include the DGE directive on affiliate compliance for 2015).

2. Affiliates that promote (or promoted) offshore sites to non-US users but that have blocked US users.

I don't have an answer to this, but I suspect it's a non issue - they are concerned with affiliates who promote offshore to US traffic, and particularly to NJ residents. They are not interested in "policing the world" or so I've been told by representatives. Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm just speculating on this - you can call the DGE to ask, as they are very helpful and responsive. Personally if this was me, I'd just pursue licensing and see what comes up. The CPA application is very easy.

3. I noticed also whilst nosing around some info that the PA license requires a social security number, which implies US citizen. Are there issues for non-US residents (either individual or company) applying for licenses?

Many affiliates have registered for PA licenses that are not US based. PA does require you to register your business in the state of PA, so you should be able to generate and use an employment tax ID as a registered business in PA. I'm still going through this process, and PA has been frustrating on all accounts! I will say, they too are fairly responsive and helpful. You can ask them questions here:

(can't post link - google "register a business in PA" and you'll see the resource).

4. Finally, what are your thoughts on master licenses? Are we likely to see some kind of affiliate network (XL or someone like that) effectively operating as the license holder in exchange for a cut. Or is that unlikely to be allowed?

I've asked this question multiple times myself and haven't received a straight answer!

I suspect it would still require a base level of licensing, aka you still have to be licensed in NJ as a CPA affiliate to work under a master affiliate - I suspect there is operators (like XL) who might be interested in this, but everyone is in unchartered waters right now and focused on more immediate developments. Personally, I think this would be a great idea - and I'd even be interested in joining one myself.

Sorry if this wasn't more help, you asked some thought-provoking questions! Unable to post links also.

 

[MJM]

What it takes to get affiliate licenses? How much it costs?
Is it worth switching website generating 1000+ players for US monthly (from all states to grey casinos) to accept only players from a few states but regulated states?

Cost varies by state.

NJ CPA = free, simple form to fill out. Revshare takes a far more detailed application, background/financial investigation, and a $2500 fee.

PA CPA = $2,500 every five years. Same as NJ for revshare ($5,000 fee).

Indiana CPA = $500 application fee, revshare requires an actual gambling license same as an operator would need to take bets.

West Virginia = no license needed.

MI/PA Lotteries = no license needed.

Horse racing = no license needed.

On to your financial related question - first off congrats on sending 1,000+ rmp's across the USA - those are serious numbers and frankly that's a tough spot to be in. I'll try my best to address it, but know it's just opinion at this point.

Personally, I'd say eventually most offshore operators are going to have to leave the USA. The market is unlikely to support both, and regulated brands are going to put more pressure on enforcement if they feel they can't effectively compete. If I was an offshore affiliate in the US on revshare, I wouldn't feel very secure about the future of my income. Personally I feel the future is in the regulated markets, I respect why that is a tougher decision for you.

 

[Kadabra]

Thanks for reaching out Bald! These are really good questions. I'll preface my answers with saying that a. I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice and b. I could be wrong and some of my answers are speculative!

1. Affiliates that promoted offshore sites post 2006 but stop prior to applying for a license.

This one is pretty easy, NJ came out with a "line in the sand" advising affiliates to stop promoting offshore by a date in 2015. If you stopped promoting offshore prior to that date, and more importantly didn't promote offshore alongside regulated offers - you are clear.

I'll add to this my personal opinion - the NJDGE is interested in compliance, not really chasing down people for past actions. If you want to take part in the US regulated market, get compliant yesterday - period. I have long thought that a black friday affiliate scenario is around the corner, and as more states come on board - the likeliness of this increases.

Alongside you mean on different sites i assume?

I assume there are plenty that just set up different companies for new legal sites and not abandoning their previous projects no?

Btw, wondering why you like to push people actively into getting into your space

Maybe some of AGD mods can fix MJM permissions here. I think he is on GPWA for a decade or more. If he starts spamming you can always send him back there

 

[MJM]

Alongside you mean on different sites i assume?

I assume there are plenty that just set up different companies for new legal sites and not abandoning their previous projects no?

Btw, wondering why you like to push people actively into getting into your space

In the early days, some affiliates were promoting offshore offers to NJ residents along side regulated ones (the offshore offers probably paid better). I'll call that "double dipping" and it's a sure way to get the DGE's negative attention. That's what I meant by "along side".

In terms of your other question "why do I push people into my space" - simple answer actually. I don't want the entire US market to be dominated by huge affiliate companies like Catena/BC. If smaller affiliates don't get involved, we'll all get swallowed up. The biggest gambling market in the world has plenty of room, and I've got a big head start

 

[Kadabra]

In the early days, some affiliates were promoting offshore offers to NJ residents along side regulated ones (the offshore offers probably paid better). I'll call that "double dipping" and it's a sure way to get the DGE's negative attention. That's what I meant by "along side".

In terms of your other question "why do I push people into my space" - simple answer actually. I don't want the entire US market to be dominated by huge affiliate companies like Catena/BC. If smaller affiliates don't get involved, we'll all get swallowed up. The biggest gambling market in the world has plenty of room, and I've got a big head start

Yes, i saw. also from your forum posts i assume you would manage also without it.

btw, the license is per person or per site?

 

[MJM]

Licensing varies - for example all key employees or share holders over 10% need to be licensed. For my small company, one license is sufficient for all of us.

Regarding your question about having it both ways, I'm sure some are trying - they will get caught and banned for life. People do report these things, and the DGE actively investigates.

I don't want this conversation to turn into offshore vs not. You pick a side, and you live with the decision. I"m hoping to have positive conversations with affiliates that are interested in being on the right side of the market - and networking with them. In general I'm happy to answer any questions - but I"m not going to answer any more questions that are asking about ways around the system, I'm sure you understand.

 

[eenzoo]

I am not sure about that.

It seems most of the states consider sports betting only, CA poker only ...
If you decide to jump into the legal casino space, you can serve currently 2 states and you are involved in a huge competition.

Maybe you can serve casino players in 5 states until 2021 and with regards to licenses you probably need to sell your players per CPA ... and what do they paying for 20 FTD a month? $150? $200 each? ... just peanuts.
And what can you promote? Sugarhouse? Hollywood? Maybe two more until 2021?!

But will this also start an affiliate program?

Search volumes based on states (eg. PA online casino) are tiny. For sports betting terms, it looks a bit better.

I think as a sports betting affiliate maybe you can take the gamble to build a website around common terms and state-related stuff but as a casino affiliate, I can promote offshore brands to the population of 40 states for the next 6 to 7 years easy.

 

[MJM]

I am not sure about that.

It seems most of the states consider sports betting only, CA poker only ...
If you decide to jump into the legal casino space, you can serve currently 2 states and you are involved in a huge competition.

Maybe you can serve casino players in 5 states until 2021 and with regards to licenses you probably need to sell your players per CPA ... and what do they paying for 20 FTD a month? $150? $200 each? ... just peanuts.
And what can you promote? Sugarhouse? Hollywood? Maybe two more until 2021?!

But will this also start an affiliate program?

Search volumes based on states (eg. PA online casino) are tiny. For sports betting terms, it looks a bit better.

I think as a sports betting affiliate maybe you can take the gamble to build a website around common terms and state-related stuff but as a casino affiliate, I can promote offshore brands to the population of 40 states for the next 6 to 7 years easy.

There is nearly 20 casinos to promote in NJ alone, the market is maturing nicely. I get your point though, this is not a market for everyone. FWIW CPA amounts are higher than you mentioned on the casino side, double it.

 

[NDG]

You are stuck on CPA if you don't want to pay a large licensing fee, and
they want to force you to only promote casinos that are US licensed.

It's not really worth it at this point. They could attract more affiliates if they would loosen their terms.

 

[Swish]

I am just starting in casino affiliate marketing in the US. Do I need a license to be able to legally do so?

 

[bettingappguide]

I am just starting in casino affiliate marketing in the US. Do I need a license to be able to legally do so?

Are you planning to promote regulated operators in legalized states like sugar house, William hill etc to NJ or unregulated operators like bovada and betonline?

 

[Roman Doroshenko]

Cost varies by state.

NJ CPA = free, simple form to fill out. Revshare takes a far more detailed application, background/financial investigation, and a $2500 fee.

PA CPA = $2,500 every five years. Same as NJ for revshare ($5,000 fee).

Indiana CPA = $500 application fee, revshare requires an actual gambling license same as an operator would need to take bets.

West Virginia = no license needed.

MI/PA Lotteries = no license needed.

Horse racing = no license needed.

On to your financial related question - first off congrats on sending 1,000+ rmp's across the USA - those are serious numbers and frankly that's a tough spot to be in. I'll try my best to address it, but know it's just opinion at this point.

Personally, I'd say eventually most offshore operators are going to have to leave the USA. The market is unlikely to support both, and regulated brands are going to put more pressure on enforcement if they feel they can't effectively compete. If I was an offshore affiliate in the US on revshare, I wouldn't feel very secure about the future of my income. Personally I feel the future is in the regulated markets, I respect why that is a tougher decision for you.

Thanks for sharing everything. As for now, it's really hard to make a decision in favor of regulated states at this point. But to be clear, Im 100% for the regulated markets, and all markets to be regulated, cuz its better for everyone.

 

[eenzoo]

I don’t think so. It is great for big companies who have to play within the rules. I make my few bucks to 90% in unregulated and or illegal markets. And thats fine.

In fully regulated markets nobody needs affiliates. You can buy a player for way less money then a $250 CPA. Long live the black markets.

 

[baldidiot]

Thanks for reaching out Bald! These are really good questions. I'll preface my answers with saying that a. I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice and b. I could be wrong and some of my answers are speculative!

1. Affiliates that promoted offshore sites post 2006 but stop prior to applying for a license.

This one is pretty easy, NJ came out with a "line in the sand" advising affiliates to stop promoting offshore by a date in 2015. If you stopped promoting offshore prior to that date, and more importantly didn't promote offshore alongside regulated offers - you are clear.

I'll add to this my personal opinion - the NJDGE is interested in compliance, not really chasing down people for past actions. If you want to take part in the US regulated market, get compliant yesterday - period. I have long thought that a black friday affiliate scenario is around the corner, and as more states come on board - the likeliness of this increases.

I've heard of scenarios where affiliates who wanted to get clean in 2019 paid a fine, and have a "sit out" period, which makes sense - they approached the DGE directly to do that, as they were large companies. Any enforcement or banning I've seen taken place so far has been with affiliates who try to play both sides by promoting offshore alongside regulated brand offers. That's a huge NO in the DGE's eyes and will result in an enforcement action (google the oddshark ban for an example of this).

(can't post links - tried to include the DGE directive on affiliate compliance for 2015).

2. Affiliates that promote (or promoted) offshore sites to non-US users but that have blocked US users.

I don't have an answer to this, but I suspect it's a non issue - they are concerned with affiliates who promote offshore to US traffic, and particularly to NJ residents. They are not interested in "policing the world" or so I've been told by representatives. Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm just speculating on this - you can call the DGE to ask, as they are very helpful and responsive. Personally if this was me, I'd just pursue licensing and see what comes up. The CPA application is very easy.

3. I noticed also whilst nosing around some info that the PA license requires a social security number, which implies US citizen. Are there issues for non-US residents (either individual or company) applying for licenses?

Many affiliates have registered for PA licenses that are not US based. PA does require you to register your business in the state of PA, so you should be able to generate and use an employment tax ID as a registered business in PA. I'm still going through this process, and PA has been frustrating on all accounts! I will say, they too are fairly responsive and helpful. You can ask them questions here:

(can't post link - google "register a business in PA" and you'll see the resource).

4. Finally, what are your thoughts on master licenses? Are we likely to see some kind of affiliate network (XL or someone like that) effectively operating as the license holder in exchange for a cut. Or is that unlikely to be allowed?

I've asked this question multiple times myself and haven't received a straight answer!

I suspect it would still require a base level of licensing, aka you still have to be licensed in NJ as a CPA affiliate to work under a master affiliate - I suspect there is operators (like XL) who might be interested in this, but everyone is in unchartered waters right now and focused on more immediate developments. Personally, I think this would be a great idea - and I'd even be interested in joining one myself.

Sorry if this wasn't more help, you asked some thought-provoking questions! Unable to post links also.

Thanks for this MJ, very informative!

Here's another one for you - what kind of CPAs are on offer for the regulated states? Are people pretty much paying the same amounts or is there a big range.

It's also probably a bit too soon to tell, but any idea of indication of player values?

 

[bettingappguide]

Thanks for this MJ, very informative!

Here's another one for you - what kind of CPAs are on offer for the regulated states? Are people pretty much paying the same amounts or is there a big range.

It's also probably a bit too soon to tell, but any idea of indication of player values?

They can go from around $200 with talk of the bigger players (catena etc) around $800.

 

[eenzoo]

Btw it seems you can just redirect your NJ/PA traffic from your sites with offshore casino sites to a clean website. Like the WoO here. wizardofodds.com/the-legality-of-online-gambling-us/