As a business do you operate on morals?

[footballaffiliate]

A bit far out there and perhaps controversial, but with the political situation going on in Israel/Palestine at the moment, do you, or you as a business operate by a set of business morals and ethics?

Just firing out the question, I'm not asking whether it's right or wrong to think this way - every business is entitled to work with who they want. Not asking anyone to debate the rights and wrongs of both sides in the current conflict either

For example, some countries boycott other countries products (and some of these are legally applied) when they fear that by buying those products they may be feeding immoral things that are happening there - examples - Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea etc.

So, do you actively decide to not work with other businesses in some countries because you don't agree as an individual or your business ethics don't align with what is happening in a country?

Personally, seeing pictures of dead children on a Gaza beach does make me uneasy about earning big money for affiliate companies based in Israel. Perhaps many people don't think that deeply, but it's uncomfortable in our view.

 

[NDG]

It's best not to judge a program by their location, but by how they decide to run their business.
I don't have a problem working with companies in Israel as long as they are fair and honest.

 

[footballaffiliate]

But the point is, funding businesses in these locations indirectly funds governments.

Tell me when you find a program there that is fair and honest though!

 

[footballaffiliate]

Not taking sides, but to clarify, if I were to not work with Israeli companies due to ethical reasons, I would also not work with Palestinian companies too given the uncertainty over what your business efforts are funding in those countries. Similarly we turn down business from Russia and Ukraine - we actually had an ad agency from Ukraine want to work with us the other week. Not only on moral grounds, but the fact that the instability in the country could lead to business relationships breaking down overnight.

 

[frankcolt]

Godwin's law

 

[AussieDave]

Godwin's law

au contraire...
If the holocaust is true, no one would subject this treatment on any human. Yet, Israel is exterminating Palestinian's.

 

[frankcolt]

Godwin's law -
there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress

 

[byebyebaby]

People are a rotten race, always have, always will be. Let's play some slots now, ok ;-)

 

[tryme1]

Interesting thread. I certainly don't want to get into an ethics debate over the whole Israeli-Palestine thing, but I'll chime in.

I have no problems working with businesses no matter what country they are from. That isn't the ethical foundation on which I make decisions as it gets uncomfortably close to racism or prejudice of one form or another. In effect, I would be saying 'I won't work with companies from [insert name of country] as all people from [name of country] are corrupt/frauds/sponsoring terrorism/delete as applicable'. That is patent nonsense.

However, there are definitely some businesses I would never work with just as there are some companies who I will go out of my way not to give money to, even inadvertently. For example, I won't shop at Asda here in the UK as they are owned by WalMart and WalMart's record of using third world labour and treatment of their own direct employees is shocking. Ethically, they are not something I am willing to support.

 

[Vladi]

It always annoys me when people conflate the actions of governments with those of ordinary people who live in a country. My own government in Australia has done some disgraceful things recently but that does not mean that all us "regular Joes" living here support or can even do anything about it. After all, the reality of democracy is that people elect politicians, in our case from a selection of intellectually dwarfed liars on either side, who then get to do whatever they like until the next election. And that is the countries where people actually have a say in who leads them.

I would not expect people overseas to stop doing business with me because our borderline-handicapped prime minister is a racist, climate change denying, halfwit, any more than I would stop doing business with a private company or individual in another country that has no influence over what their government is doing, regardless of whether they are from Israel, Iran, North Korea or anywhere else.

Doing so is not "being moral", it is being a sheep. Don't listen to the propaganda - whole countries of people aren't "your enemy", most of then just want to have a happy life with their family. You need to judge whoever you are dealing with on a case by case basis.

The ironic thing after all that is that I have to say that I am almost always suspicious of Israel based affiliate programs because I have had years of personal experience of shady practices, and a total lack of ethics from the ones I have dealt with. The ones I have experience with almost all operate on a "ends justify the means" set of ethics, and they will not hesitate to rip you off if they think they can get away with it. I have no problem in dealing with an ethically run, trustworthy, Israeli affiliate program - just let me know as soon as you find one.

 

[AussieDave]

I'm sure most hitch-hikers are not axe murderers but I still wont give a hitch-hiker a lift!

The ironic thing after all that is that I have to say that I am almost always suspicious of Israel based affiliate programs because I have had years of personal experience of shady practices, and a total lack of ethics from the ones I have dealt with. The ones I have experience with almost all operate on a "ends justify the means" set of ethics, and they will not hesitate to rip you off if they think they can get away with it. I have no problem in dealing with an ethically run, trustworthy, Israeli affiliate program - just let me know as soon as you find one.

Like yourself and many others, I too have had the misfortune of dealing with some pretty dodgy programs out of Israel.

Godwin's law -
there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress

If you were au fait with "Godwin's Law", you'd also know Godwin (a US attorney and author), made referrence to people using "Godwin's Law" as you have, here. And I quote from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyerbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

 

[slotplayer]

its not so much as location but ones actions that make or break trust.

 

[footballaffiliate]

We too have had the "misfortune" of dealing with some dodgy programs out of Israel and so have many others. When you experience such a trend it sort of becomes reality!

Does make us wonder why some companies put their affiliate programs out to Israel. Years ago when working for software companies we experienced the same thing with software development going out to India and the reputation of poor quality, customer service, language barrier etc.

Does baffle us how Will Hill, Ladbrokes etc would think that having affiliate programs in Israel with this poor reputation would be anything positive for business.

On the last point - location vs actions of companies - many people who work for the gaming companies in Israel have been around many of the companies, and some companies even share the same offices in Tel Aviv, so sometimes it's not just the company you're dealing with as a lot of information gets shared between people over a beer in the bars of Tel Aviv.

 

[leporello]

It's best not to judge a program by their location, but by how they decide to run their business.
I don't have a problem working with companies in Israel as long as they are fair and honest.

Not singling you out personally as many people promote them, but if the above statement is true I would start looking at the brands I'm promoting on my homepage. Fair and honest cannot be used to describe a number of those casinos on your homepage.

Going back to OP, it's a good question. I have no issue with working on companies based in Israel. I don't agree with their policies nor the polices of the US government, however the companies I'm promoting do not have any influence on government policy, so I don't see it as an issue.

What I do have an issue with morally is promoting scams. Lock Poker converted better than any brand in the US poker market. However, I had to stop promoting them as soon as player payment issues arose. Sure I can make a ton of money from them, more than any other company, but I'd rather make less from a reputable outfit knowing that the players money is safe and they will get paid when they win.

Likewise, some of the Israeli casino groups are an absolute joke. I like to think if a company I worked for did what they do that I would tender my resignation. I have removed several operators off all my sites recently in spite of having very good relationships with the people working there. I don't care if I make a million extra per month by promoting them. By doing so I would just be part of the scam and at some point as affiliates, we need to take responsibility for what we do and not just send people to the places where we make the most money, knowing full well if the players win they won't get paid.

 

[AussieDave]

What I do have an issue with morally is promoting scams. Lock Poker converted better than any brand in the US poker market. However, I had to stop promoting them as soon as player payment issues arose. Sure I can make a ton of money from them, more than any other company, but I'd rather make less from a reputable outfit knowing that the players money is safe and they will get paid when they win.

Likewise, some of the Israeli casino groups are an absolute joke. I like to think if a company I worked for did what they do that I would tender my resignation.

at some point as affiliates, we need to take responsibility for what we do and not just send people to the places where we make the most money, knowing full well if the players win they won't get paid.

Mate that was well said!

I've lost count of the number of rogue casinos/affiliate programs who have closed down, re-branded and opened shop again. What truly amazes me though, is some affiliates jump back into bed with these crooks. While the online gaming industry isn't entirely rotten to the core, the nature of this business along with its double standards, is what allows these less than ethical entities, to continue to pull these rorts.

If an affiliate program has been proven (with facts) or likewise a gambling venue has been up to dodgy business and essentially ripping people off. Affiliate forums/player forums et al need to stop being bias and out these crooks for who they are, theives! However I've lost count of the number of instances, over the years, where I've witness, one program who is liked -- doing exactly the same thing as another who is rogued.

Though because the powers-that-be are chummy with 1 program (errr lines their pockets with gold), they look the other way and even to the point of making up excuses, to sanitize these crooked actions.

This creates another problem...

New affiliates (because old affiliates should know better), see XYZ affiliate forum/associations accepting sponsorships BUT again because of a bias (double standards mentality), keep these clip joints on site. Hence affiliates assume it ok to promote these places. When in relality, it's not and these places don't give two hoots about anything, other than, the dollars filling their pockets by these crooks.

I personally think this industry we're involved in, is unfixable.
It's been sactioned and allowed to behave like this from day one. And, 9 times outa 10, the people who could put a stop to it, wont, cause again, doing so would affect their alliances, bank balances etc etc.

 

[Guard Dog]

If an affiliate program has been proven (with facts) or likewise a gambling venue has been up to dodgy business and essentially ripping people off. Affiliate forums/player forums et al need to stop being bias and out these crooks for who they are, theives! However I've lost count of the number of instances, over the years, where I've witness, one program who is liked -- doing exactly the same thing as another who is rogued.

Though because the powers-that-be are chummy with 1 program (errr lines their pockets with gold), they look the other way and even to the point of making up excuses, to sanitize these crooked actions.

I try to be fair here Of course, that's why we only have a couple sponsors instead of 50.. ha ha.

 

[slotplayer]

GD, I have no problem with you making money with your forum. Why should you not be rewarded for your hard work?

 

[AussieDave]

GD, I have no problem with you making money with your forum. Why should you not be rewarded for your hard work?

I hold a likewise opinion for anyone operating an affiliate forum, as long as they are not bias toward programs.

 

[lalalaenhund]

It is a bit different when a multi million dollar company (or a country) boycotts a country, compared to your couple thousand per month affiliate income... Stop worrying about pointless things.

 

[AussieDave]

It is a bit different when a multi million dollar company (or a country) boycotts a country, compared to your couple thousand per month affiliate income... Stop worrying about pointless things.

What's that saying... One man's loose change is anothers livelihood. I get your point, though, I'm sure others who have been cheated out of far more, than a few grand, wont