C.A.S. crossmarketing with no tracking?

[WCD Admin]

Hi was reviewing my account at Casino Affiliate Share (Cleopatras and Royal Sands)

They too have a new "Player Rewards" site and it too cross-markets our players and does not track. If I go Cleopatra from my banner, then click the rewards program, then click Royal Sands - there are no cookies following me!

I don't think all these groups are having the same accident by coincidence. This stuff seems purposeful and has been done by multiple casino programs recently. It's the new fad for "bad" affiliate programs it seems. At least we see you.

You are IN the affiliate business. Ignorance is not a real excuse here. If you run multiple casinos and cross market our players, you better carry the tags! I have pointed the affiliate manager to the thread to explain this!!! No wonder my earnings dropped by 75% this month. you freaking probably sent them to Royal Sands!!! I have taken down your banners as of tonight.

Each time I put some up, I end up taking them down. I suggest to other affiliate programs who are not busted yet, to go out and beat me to it. To those who don't think shaving and robbing is a growing cancer - think again.

Hmm... wasn't it theGamblingGuru who warned about this group already... I know it wasn't concrete but seems that we better listen to other peoples hunches.... as they seem to keep turning out to be right. Thanks Rob! I keep reminding myself to listen more to you!

 

[WCD Admin]

I found the post with theGamblingGurus warning: https:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/rtg-programs-t1570.html#post8961

 

[Vladi]

Those guys are as rogue as they come. Do a search for their casinos with "rogue" in the keywords and see what you get. I do that before signing up with any program these days.

 

[WCD Admin]

You are right. Virtual Group wasn't on my radar because I never promoted them - and was missing when whatever really irked people happened - which from what I gather was players not being paid. Also Oliver Curran links all over this place.

So I have now thoroughly done my home work and while I still have questions - like "who owns who" type of questions, I do understand what I read at CM: Virtual Group = Futura Properties = Casino Affiliate Share

What concerns me is that CAS program was shopped TO me by Fredric my affiliate manager at BCP. We were pretty chummy for some time. He mentioned his friend Jonathon was starting out and would I help him. He was a friend. So I did. Was this Fred really helping his buddy Jonathon? Or was this BCP pushing Virtual Group?

 

[dominique]

I am starting to get a real bad feeling about BCP. They just keep popping up in unsavory contexts...

 

[Aussie-Dave]

What concerns me is that CAS program was shopped TO me by Fredric my affiliate manager at BCP. We were pretty chummy for some time. He mentioned his friend Jonathon was starting out and would I help him. He was a friend. So I did. Was this Fred really helping his buddy Jonathon? Or was this BCP pushing Virtual Group?

Mate I think most of us have been in that position.

However when you start to see it for what it really is (9 x out of 10) business is business and we're a commodity. When you look at it like that doing home work on who, what and where is good business practice.

Given what's transpired with me lately, I'm distancing myself and treating this on a pure business platform. Because really that's what all of us have, online businesses.

Everything in writing and if they wont document it then I find another program that will.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Vladi]

I have to agree with Dave here. WCD this isn't directed at you at all, its a general bugbear of mine.

I don't know whether its all the conferences and parties or what, but there seem to be too many affiliates who naively regard affiliate managers & programs as their friends. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are useful to them if we send them business which means money. Nothing more, despite what they may say or how nice they were to you at the party they threw, or the free stuff they gave to you at the conference, or sent you as a xmas present.

It might sound sad and a little tin foil but you really need to look out for yourself - especially so in this industry where all the money you earn is completely based on trusting the affiliate program to report it to you and pay you honestly. You are not a friend, you are a source of revenue. Don't ever forget that, and learn to use it to your advantage.

 

[WCD Admin]

You guys are preaching to the choir here. Honestly, I'd have liked to keep this thread separate. It was about C.A.S. and its connection to Virtual Group and alerting fellow members about the cross-marketing that seems to be going on.

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Dave: I hear ya' - but it IS written half the time. They just don't care. And if they are going to steal from you the writing doesn't do any good anyway. I think you'll be wasting your time. I did think about this plan once and my attorney friend was going to draft some things for affiliate programs to sign for us but I scrapped the idea when thinking about how to get an affiliate program to sign away its "get out of jail free" card when half the time I can't get them to respond to an email.

Vladi: diversified programs make me about 1/2 my income right now, we do flat media buys and our sites get well over a half million visitors a month. We're in pretty good shape for the future, although I appreciate your concern. But it IS the other half of our income so we care. When economists don't worry about their own ecosystems they find out they have no sandbox left to play in.

The theories about shifting programs around works while there are plenty of fish in the sea, but falls apart when the affiliate programs reach a boiling point of corruption and consolidation. Then when all player databases are the same because of cross-marketing, stolen databases, etc, you'll be left with no bargaining chip. They'll just email your base! No affiliate necessary.

Certain rotten affiliate programs are employing revolving door marketing strategies that will make anyones head spin. Half the time you think you've moved from one program to the next, but really you've just walked across the hallway to another office.

What we need as I've been saying when everyone got real quiet was I have an https:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/idea-defend-ourselves-hostile-industry-t3449.html

 

[Vladi]

Yes, sorry back on track. I had a read at CM and couldn't really see a link between Curgam / Futura and the Virtual Group. Both groups are certainly rogue but there is not much evidence that I could find that they are related. Do you have a link?

What concerns me is that CAS program was shopped TO me by Fredric my affiliate manager at BCP. We were pretty chummy for some time. He mentioned his friend Jonathon was starting out and would I help him. He was a friend. So I did. Was this Fred really helping his buddy Jonathon? Or was this BCP pushing Virtual Group?

How do you know Fred isn't Jonathon himself? Or he's set himself up so that he gets a commission for referring you? Or maybe they really are buddies or ex-colleagues or something. Could be many explanations that don't necessarily mean that BCP itself is tied up with these guys.

 

[WCD Admin]

Yes, sorry back on track. I had a read at CM and couldn't really see a link between Curgam / Futura and the Virtual Group. Both groups are certainly rogue but there is not much evidence that I could find that they are related. Do you have a link?

Here is the link showing Virtual to Ace Revenue to C.A.S.:
Virtual = Acerevenue - Page 2 - Casinomeister's Online Casino and Poker Forum

It's another link that hooked them into Futura Properties:
Cleopatras palace casino (cleopatraspalacecasino.com) - Page 3 - Casinomeister's Online Casino and Poker Forum

I'm not saying that BCP is or is not legally connected to CAS. It's an observation (first step of scientific method) which I think should be followed up on given the nature of both programs involved.

 

[Vladi]

Interesting, thanks for the link.