Harrahs Coming Online, We Should Pay Close Attention!!!

[bonusgeek]

So I am sure everyone has heard that Harrah's may be entering the online poker market. I am curious what role affiliates are going to play here. Everyone knows that affiliates are the driving force to any online gambling outfit, but will they try and nickel and dime us with commission rates like 10% since their name precedes them?

I think we should all pay close attention how this plays out here as it has potential to set the tone for all big vegas companies who will eventually be coming online. Standing united as an affiliate industry is going to be extremely important and I am really curious how it all plays out.

Any thoughts?

 

[Guard Dog]

I didn't even know that they were planning on entering the market. How can they as a US company? I'm confused.

We definitely need to take notice on this one. I'd hate to see any place go to 10% revshare... we wouldn't have enough money to market them at that point.

 

[dominique]

Thats been evolving for years. Long ago they acquired a licence, I think in Alderney. They and Party have been doing a dance for some years too. They can enter the market as long as they don't permit US players. And get positioned.....

 

[bonusgeek]

Yea they hired former party gaming CEO recently. I am not really up to date on everything but I think California is close to possibly legalizing online poker as they are in desperate need of revenue.

This is just what I remember reading somewhere so it may have already been shutdown, but none the less I think we are getting much closer to legalizing at least online poker as a skill game sometime soon, especially with the new bill by barney frank being introduced in the near future.

Although I am really eager to working names like Harrahs since I know they won't play games with players like imposing $2K cashout limits, it will give me pause if they come in with some nickel and dime commission offers. I don't mind working for a little less, how much less is the question. I am just concerned about a precedent being set with affiliates and revenue and I think its something affiliates should be thinking about now.

 

[bb1webs]

Don't get mad at me for saying this but If I were them I'd offer exactly what you mentioned Kevin. 10%, maybe 15%.

Really all they need to do is to advertise in spots that most of us couldn't afford ... like 888 used to do on front pages of sites like msn and aol ... and it wouldn't take long for word to get out that they had opened a poker room.

That's all they'd have to do is get word out. People would look for them after that.

The only reason I say I'd offer 10% isn't because of anything affs could offer that the name couldn't achieve by itself but its just smart business to continue branding and 10% isn't that much.

besides what is the rev share % of any current poker sponsor ... after you've subtracted rakeback?

I imagine if anything the lesser % would just return things to a more level playing field since the rakebackers can only cut throats so far before they bleed out too.


.....

and of course hope I'm wrong and they pay a nice hefty %.

 

[bonusgeek]

Don't get mad at me for saying this but If I were them I'd offer exactly what you mentioned Kevin. 10%, maybe 15%.

Really all they need to do is to advertise in spots that most of us couldn't afford ... like 888 used to do on front pages of sites like msn and aol ... and it wouldn't take long for word to get out that they had opened a poker room.

That's all they'd have to do is get word out. People would look for them after that.

The only reason I say I'd offer 10% isn't because of anything affs could offer that the name couldn't achieve by itself but its just smart business to continue branding and 10% isn't that much.

besides what is the rev share % of any current poker sponsor ... after you've subtracted rakeback?

I imagine if anything the lesser % would just return things to a more level playing field since the rakebackers can only cut throats so far before they bleed out too.


.....

and of course hope I'm wrong and they pay a nice hefty %.

I don't even care on the poker side of things Steve. Rakeback has that part of the industry so screwed and this will never change.

But I understand what your saying and it makes sense. My concern is really how this will affect the online casino gambling affiliate industry as a whole if it does end up being 10%. Are all the other casino affiliate programs going to follow suit and start expecting affiliates to work for 10%? There are so many different scenarios that can happen when they legalize online gambling its really hard to say how it will play out. Maybe the non vegas casinos will need to fight harder for our traffic at that time so worrying about our commissions dropping is stretching it.

I just know when they do legalize online gambling that the whole landscape is going to change. Since we are the driving force of the industry then I would like to think affiliates as a whole will be able to somewhat shape how it plays out with a little forward thinking. Who really knows though, I am not smart enough to be on the case but I hope some of our industry leaders are running some of these scenarious through their head and will be ready to lead when it goes down because things could change a lot for us when they legalize online gambling, maybe for the better - maybe not.

But it has already been illustrated that contracts mean nothing in this industry (IE Grand Prive) so I am just saying we as an industry need to be a little careful and be thinking ahead.

 

[WCD Admin]

I'd say we are being foolish for putting this out there. No affiliate in their right mind should be switching from programs that pay us 35%-60% to Harrahs (funder of one of those guys Frist or Kyl - who got us into this mess) for a mere 10%.



correct me if I'm wrong on that donation thing, but I'm almost positive I remember watching an APCW video and J.Todd was screaming bloody murder about it.....

 

[bonusgeek]

I'd say we are being foolish for putting this out there. No affiliate in their right mind should be switching from programs that pay us 35%-60% to Harrahs (funder of one of those guys Frist or Kyl - who got us into this mess) for a mere 10%.



correct me if I'm wrong on that donation thing, but I'm almost positive I remember watching an APCW video and J.Todd was screaming bloody murder about it.....

No, I think your right and I had forgotten about this. I vaguely remember seeing something about this in an apcw video too.

 

[dominique]

Really all they need to do is to advertise in spots that most of us couldn't afford ... like 888 used to do on front pages of sites like msn and aol ... and it wouldn't take long for word to get out that they had opened a poker room.

Their advertising will be limited same as it is now - here we get ads from the local casino on TV but not Vegas. Gambling ads are regulated same as cigarettes and booze. Making it legal for them to accept US players is not going to necessarily change the advertising policies back to where they were years ago. As a matter of fact, I bet a strict advertising control will be part of any regulation I bet.

 

[WCD Admin]

Their advertising will be limited same as it is now - here we get ads from the local casino on TV but not Vegas. Gambling ads are regulated same as cigarettes and booze. Making it legal for them to accept US players is not going to necessarily change the advertising policies back to where they were years ago. As a matter of fact, I bet a strict advertising control will be part of any regulation I bet.

I agree - plus the fact that once you can legally run a online poker room or advertise one in the U.S. everyone else will be able to do that, too. They'll have some $$ to throw around but with the economy, everything is going to be a risk.

The land based casinos / bad legislation have left a bad taste in the online gaming sectors mouth. Even for players, especially poker players who have been charged for playing online.... So to see 50,000 people jumping the FullTilt ship (or whatever) to go cuddle up with Harrah's seems far fetched to me. Just my 2cents

 

[TreasureChest]

Their advertising will be limited same as it is now - here we get ads from the local casino on TV but not Vegas. Gambling ads are regulated same as cigarettes and booze. Making it legal for them to accept US players is not going to necessarily change the advertising policies back to where they were years ago. As a matter of fact, I bet a strict advertising control will be part of any regulation I bet.

Just look at it as an opportunity to charge for space on your site... if they won't pay the commissions, pay for advertising...or both. At least you get paid, up front monthly, discounts for longevity and toss if they do not pay... being from the web hosting side (I have seen it all) , the commission route is risky aka grand Prive, RedHotRevenue. They will not be able to block the organic, only pay for the ppc. The adsense ads will also kick in like other aff marketing and may take up the ad space on your site... just like the rest. At least Google pays on time!

 

[Adrian-LiveCasinoPartners]

I've also wondered what would happen if the big Vegas companies get into the game. Would they be willing to shell out the commissions we see today? I think that in many ways the market is set. Take BetFred and William Hill, I couldn't get more than 25% with BF. I was pulling in players, but still could not convince the AM to get me more (unless I gave them more exposure, which I revolt against those criteria). My goal was to get as much as Europartners (5%more). I think that the larger firms have more costs and will not be as eager to negotiate.

I have the feeling that 20-25% would be the target. Pure speculation on my part, but I can't see them going lower due to the competition offering more for the same quality gaming. My real example is the above, where I did not give more exposure due to a low commission rate.

I do not think that affiliates should be too worried about it. There will always be quality programs with lucrative program revenue schemes.

 

[bb1webs]

the market is suppose to be like 80% states fed.

- forced via ad regulations etc .. to favor local
- at same time this "forced" ... results in their playing at a culture-friendly, (arguably) the best regulation for gambling in the world, familiar named place
- where I imagine the difference in banking ease will be almost night to day ... and I know that I'd trust the banking processors a lot more than I do currently the ones available. I'm always afraid I'm going to wake up and find out my one option has followed Elvis out of the building ... and yes .. never to be seen again either.

tough time marketing against that.

I def agree that if affs are smart and forward thinking that we certainly can greatly influence the direction our futures may take ... all by just getting our shit together long enough to .... show our hand at the right time and in severe strength ... then that one mutually-timed effort might impress the right people in such flamboyant style ... that they'd not bother to swim against such an already strong existing current. So to set a precedent which ideally would stand for some time.

 

[WCD Admin]

This guy, Chris Wallace, will not be playing at Harrah's online poker room I bet. New tactic in war on online gambling Minnesota is on the war path!

 

[dominique]

Re. Minnesota: APCW posted the list of casinos here: http://www.apcw.org/legal-documents/Active Casinos.xls

It is quite funny, seems they pulled the list from some badly updated aff site. Lots of places that don't accept US anyways, dead places, very active places not on list - LOL! No research done at all.

Re. vegas online: we can speculate till the cows come home. There are a zillion ways this could play out. One thing I am sure of - when online, they will use online advertising as best they can. They are in the worst of slumps!

 

[WCD Admin]

Someone should email them with a list of blacklisted casinos. Grand Prive isn't on the list!

 

[bb1webs]

They are in the worst of slumps!

Great point! The economy could have more to do with things than even those who predicted it would force Vegas on line. It could also be a deciding factor in whether or not they use affiliate marketing.

Curious, do you think anybody who's involved with going on line has given any thought yet at all to whether or not they'll use aff marketing?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the answer to that is no.

 

[dominique]

Harrahs just hired a guy from Party to head their new online operations - they obviously see the need to do different marketing online. I don't think they are stupid enough to ignore the availability to direct market to states they cannot market to now. They are restricted on TV - I expect them to make full use of online marketing.

Wynn is already advertising online using affiliates, as is MGMmirage.

They want MORE exposure, like everyone else. As the online venue becomes available, they will study and learn from existing online casinos.