Looking for your best performing casino program

[footballaffiliate]

Looking around at casino programs - many can be pretty dodgy on reputation, where they're based -in some sort of lawless territory somewhere in the world skimming players etc, but i'm still in search for more reputable companies to work with.

Many people recommend Mr Green (perhaps market a bit saturated now), Vera & John, but i've not heard much about others. Anyone make any money out of Harry Affiliates? I just went to their site - looks good, however in the small print at the bottom I read that they're operated by Affiliate Lounge, who had a pretty dodgy reputation with Betsson in the past.

Any advise would be appreciated. General traffic targets - Europe & Asia.

 

[CaseyM]

As far as I know Harry Affiliates just use the Aff lounge software but are a separate company, they convert for me but have only generated very small depositors so far

 

[KasinoKing]

For me, Mr.Green has been a total waste of time
(The worst performing of all the NetEnt based casinos I list).

I can't really say I have a "best" program, or even group of programs - my figures vary greatly from month-to-month and it's impossible for me to predict which ones will be my biggest earners.

So my advice is stick to the Approved Programs listed here at AGD - and definitely avoid all the rogue or dodgy programs, such as Betfair, Bwin, William Hills, etc...

KK

 

[footballaffiliate]

For me, Mr.Green has been a total waste of time
(The worst performing of all the NetEnt based casinos I list).

I can't really say I have a "best" program, or even group of programs - my figures vary greatly from month-to-month and it's impossible for me to predict which ones will be my biggest earners.

So my advice is stick to the Approved Programs listed here at AGD - and definitely avoid all the rogue or dodgy programs, such as Betfair, Bwin, William Hills, etc...

KK

Interesting - I always thought people chose Mr Green above others because they trust them much more than anyone else - Mr Green builds their whole company on the trust thing. That said, if they don't convert then it doesn't matter.

Difficult to choose programs as there are many thousands of brands out there and when you look at them it's sometimes hard to determine whether a brand has been around a week! On the other end of the scale, those brands that have been around a long time are probably saturated with players.

Agree with you on Betfair, Bwin, William Hill - have had terrible experiences with all, as most people have. This is what makes me nervous in choosing new programs though as a lot of the Tel Aviv based operators are living in each others' pockets anyway - the phrase "as thick as thieves" comes to mind. Many of them actually share the same office space. It's a very incestuous industry. On a similar note I find it hard to trust brands based off shore (Carribean, Phillipines in particular) as you have no idea what regulations they're working under - usually very little! To me, this always leaves a bit of mistrust in my mind that they'll treat their affiliates and players badly.

I've seen far too many bad practices to mention - things like cross selling with pop ups 5 seconds after you refer a click to a casino and not giving you cross product revenue share, companies sharing customer data (this would be illegal and an inprisonable offence in countries like the UK, but elsewhere anything goes!), skimming players, faking negative revenues etc etc.

I suppose the proof in the pudding is the eating, hence it would be good to take a poll of where people earn their revenues from, as if in general we're all earning good revenues from 3 or 4 places then these guys are probably the good guys. I think mass voting with affiliate's feet is the only way to overcome corruption and bad practice in the industry. For those companies where a few affiliates start saying "hang on, I've advertised these guys for 12 months and not a single sign up" then that to me is evidence of something dodgy going on.

Would love to have some sort of portal where we could share our high level data - like clicks in a month, sign ups, depositors, turnover etc. This way we'd get an idea of what sort of conversion rates you should be getting, and would police the operators from fiddling the books.

 

[KasinoKing]

For those companies where a few affiliates start saying "hang on, I've advertised these guys for 12 months and not a single sign up" then that to me is evidence of something dodgy going on.

That Is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

I DID promote the like of Will Hills, 888.com, Casino.com, etc. for more than a YEAR - and according to them I had ZERO sign-ups.
The had equal or better exposure to places which weren't so "big name" (who DID convert), and they DID have pretty decent welcome offers.
What other conclusion can one draw from that... ?

KK

 

[FictionNet]

Mr Green is my best performing program.

 

[footballaffiliate]

That Is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

I DID promote the like of Will Hills, 888.com, Casino.com, etc. for more than a YEAR - and according to them I had ZERO sign-ups.
The had equal or better exposure to places which weren't so "big name" (who DID convert), and they DID have pretty decent welcome offers.
What other conclusion can one draw from that... ?

KK

Aren't they all based in the same office in Tel Aviv too? If you read a number of other stories on AGD you'll see that data transfer between companies is pretty common - player data, affiliate data, and people have proof of this as they've used unique email addresses that no one else could have ever known.

Test is out, set up a randomnumber at domain.com email address and sign up with one of the big guys over there. Within hours/days you'll have a load of marketing spam from everyone else based in that company's office.

One operator (not the above three) out there actually had a conversation with me telling me that he used to "buy" players from another company (not based in Israel). Basically that other company couldn't make much money out of their players, so they made a bit of money on the side by selling contact details to another company that could convert the players better!

The above three are highly suspected of robbing players and commissions IMHO and from my experiences too. Can't wait for the day that someone like Will Hills gets pulled up by some UK investigators and their operations elsewhere in the world outed for some of the dodgy practices. There's so much talk of skimming, dishonesty etc on AGD that, if it's true, these companies must have scammed millions of dollars away from affiliates over the years. Drives me mad!

 

[grumble]

I know, it's about best performing programs, but William Hill is definitely fishy! My Affutd. stats of 2013 look like this (so far): more than 300 sign-ups, less than 20 new depositors and an average of about $60 income per month.
Europartners is even worse. literally hundreds of unique clicks but only one lonely player! since 2010!!!

By the way, I am not promoting them actively. I have their links in some kind of casino directory.

 

[footballaffiliate]

I know, it's about best performing programs, but William Hill is definitely fishy! My Affutd. stats of 2013 look like this (so far): more than 300 sign-ups, less than 20 new depositors and an average of about $60 income per month.
Europartners is even worse. literally hundreds of unique clicks but only one lonely player! since 2010!!!

By the way, I am not promoting them actively. I have their links in some kind of casino directory.

Man, you're getting fleeced good and proper! Similar story here. I actively won't now promote Will Hill, Europartners, iAffiliates, possibly Ladbrokes soon, ufilliates (Titan), as they're all on the take. Shame really, as some of the brands are leading brands, but you just can't work with companies who are stealing in broad daylight. I really only work with UK based companies, Gibraltar and Malta now, no one else.

If the stats don't add up, companies get dropped. I think if everyone look at their conversion rates and did this then the guys who are stealing from affiliates would at least have to steal strategically and not take the p1ss! You dip your hand into the cash register too often and you're going to get caught.

On a serious note though, is there anything affiliates can do to raise the point of fraud (because that's what it is) with the relevant governments where suspected fraudsters are based? I doubt very much that the Israeli, Maltese, or Gibraltar authorities would do anything - why would they bite the hand that feeds them? I wonder if it's worth taking up the issue with the CEO of William Hill or someone in the UK. If we put together a working group of affiliates and put together a dossier of evidence of failed sign ups, failed tracking, robbed players, dubious activity, then perhaps the guys doing the robbing would be caught out.

If fraud is going on in these companies I doubt it's an institutional wide thing. I doubt it's sanctioned by the board level downwards. Instead I think that it's probably corrupt affiliate managers and team leaders who are given bonuses based on performance. So, the more they skim off the affiliate the bigger their annual bonus. A CEO of one of these companies certainly wouldn't want to get caught in a fraud case when these companies have share holders and are publicly listed on stock exchanges in some case - William Hill being one.

 

[footballaffiliate]

Perhaps once a bunch of affiliates have enough evidence together of fraud we can go to Ralph Topping and tell him what's going on - William Hill CEO Ralph Topping's Personal Blog

 

[footballaffiliate]

I actively won't now promote Will Hill, Europartners, iAffiliates, possibly Ladbrokes soon, ufilliates (Titan), as they're all on the take.

Just looking through my own personal "block"/do not work with list, thought i'd add to it - Revenuejet, PaddyPower (they're probably honest, but the deals are bad), BWIN! (definitely NOT), AffEurope, AffActive, 888, BetAtHome (don't get me started on their 5% rev share threat!), and a few Asian bookies who have restrictive terms - mainly that you need x number of depositors to even earn revenue share e.g. 188bet, Dafabet, 12bet