SHOCK!!! Casino owners may change RTP in Play N'GO slots!

[Moonlight Cat]

Hello, Yesterday we have big scandal on Russian / CIS market! Online Casino Vavada.com (Yes, yes they stolen name from Bovada.lv) change RTP in Book of Dead slots. From officialy RTP 96% to RTP 84% (that mean minus - 16 -EV).

As players wrote on Russian forum this slots give + 70% of all turnover on this casino, and + 70% turnover on all Play N'GO slots, because "Book of Dead" is the most popular slots in Play N'GO network.

The problem for Vavada and Play'N GO that players may check Play N'GO RTP slots via Google Chrome.

And results is absolutely shoking. This slot have different RTP in different casinos. In some casinos 96%, in some 94%. Most shoking results was in Vavada.com Casino - 84% (Officialy they declared 96%). Today Vovada return RTP to 96% and make statment that they will pay compensation for players.

But from my point of view "Change RTP option" is absolutely infair. Play'N GO must remove it ASAP! This is the same as fake software, where casinos owners may change RTP.

And now this was happens in Vovada.com 84% RTP. This is the same as you make bet on red/black on Roulette that contain 7 (!) zeros.

 

[Moonlight Cat]

How you may check RTP in Play'N GO slots?

=1=

=2= Right click mouse button > last row in menu (something like "see code" in English, sorry i i have only Russian menu".

=3=

=4=

Today, after scandal Vavada return RTP to 96%. Yesterday and before it was RTP=84%. Bravo Play N'Go!

 

[Insider]

I haven't enough technical experience but normally casinos can't change RTP by themself only on the beginning they would be able when adding a new game provider they can set this. Otherwise it would mean that all companies could do and that would be indeed a shock. And it would also explains why players can't win anymore. For affiliates and casinos good, for casino players bad.

 

[Moonlight Cat]

I haven't enough technical experience but normally casinos can't change RTP by themself only on the beginning they would be able when adding a new game provider they can set this. Otherwise it would mean that all companies could do and that would be indeed a shock.

I think it will be good, if somebody who know how Play N'Go work clarify to us this situation.

 

[Strider1973]

I can't believe that you can look up the RTP value in Chrome, thanks for sharing!

 

[danniee]

Of course operators can change the RTP whenever they want on those games where it's possible. Videoslosts lowered the RTP on all Play'n GO slots not too long ago. Same with Red Tiger. Even NetEnt will roll out its Flexible RTP feature soon.

This is nothing new and operators need this flexibility to adjust to certain markets. However, trying to hide the RTP is flat out criminal of course.

 

[KasinoKing]

... And it would also explains why players can't win anymore. For affiliates and casinos good, for casino players bad.

NO - it's not good for affiliates! (Or for casinos)
Players need to win, or at least feel they have a chance of winning, or they will stop playing.
The bigger the turn-over, the better it is for casinos & affiliates as profits will be higher.
Lowering RTP reduces turn-over, which might make money quicker the very short term, but is bad long-term.

KK

 

[danniee]

NO - it's not good for affiliates! (Or for casinos)
Players need to win, or at least feel they have a chance of winning, or they will stop playing.
The bigger the turn-over, the better it is for casinos & affiliates as profits will be higher.
Lowering RTP reduces turn-over, which might make money quicker the very short term, but is bad long-term.

KK

I fully agree with you, but not sure operators are to blame for this development. I think over regulation, threats of heavy fines and high taxes is part of the problem.

 

[Insider]

NO - it's not good for affiliates! (Or for casinos)
Players need to win, or at least feel they have a chance of winning, or they will stop playing.
The bigger the turn-over, the better it is for casinos & affiliates as profits will be higher.
Lowering RTP reduces turn-over, which might make money quicker the very short term, but is bad long-term.

KK

Maybe i have not expressed correct what i meant but it takes too long to explain all exactly here. I notice a development that is not good and affects the business.

Of course players need to win but the development shows that players not win as much as before. And if players notice that they can't win anymore or it takes months to win again, then they will think about stop playing. We affiliates need constant players where lose and sometimes win.

But if the players can't win anymore and stop playing, then our earnings goes down. And if players stop playing then the casinos will think about how to generate their marges. Less stakes in games, less fees for the game providers. All will think about how to change anything to earn more. And changing RTP is one thing.

It's not about that earnings will remain the same, but about earnings going down more and more. Now we can speculate what the reason can be. Are the regulations responsible or maybe other things ?

I can only write down what my impression is and what i assume. Can be that i'm not the most experienced user or a user where has an answer of all questions. I made my experiences about many years and i learn always again new things all the time. Sorry that i haven't expressed correct.

 

[Biti]

This is going on for years and more and more providers join them. Also for example Blueprint. Margins aren't that big in the online gambling industry. Especially regulation means way smaller margins. If some governments do take a 25-30% share (gambling tax) than RTPs of 96,5 - 97% isn't sustainable for every gambling site.

To me it's ok as long as it's clear what is the RTP you're playing with.

 

[AussieDave]

Land based casinos have been changing the RTP of slots since day dot. Though, depending on where they're located (Gov., state laws) will depend on what the minimum RTP can be set to. Here in AU those figures are as follows:

In clubs and pubs in NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, Queensland and the Northern Territory, minimum RTP is set at 85%. In the ACT, minimum RTP is 87%, and in South Australia it is 87.5%. EGMs in casinos generally have a higher minimum RTP (reflecting their greater turnover and higher bet limits).

(EGMs - electronic gaming machines)

However, when we discuss online slots... Anything in the range of 95% to 96.7%, tends to be the norm. Though, there are a small number of slots much higher than this. EG: Thunderkick - 1429 Uncharted Seas, has an RTP of 98%.

Back in the day when the USA could play MGS, players were told, once a Microgaming slot was released, its RTP was set-in-stone. That may have been true back then, because the slots all used mapped (image) icon slot reels. A few smart CM members cracked the reel combinations to a number of, at the time (circa 2006), popular free-spin/feature games slots.

The following thread, lays out the icon reels in number form (others display the actual reel images):
casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cracking-the-slot-reels-here-you-go.19302/

If you have the icon slot reel positions, you can then determine (mathematically) the bona fide theoretical RTP.

NB - more importantly, if the reel position of a icon is removed or re-positioned. Changing the position of a icon could, therefore alter, the frequency of the free-spins being triggered. Which, at one point, speculation was raised about MGS (9 line slots) specifically Thunderstruck and the rams not hitting as often.

Microgaming - have always kept their Intellectual Property rights/information, close to their chest. IDK if the release of the mapped reels was the catalyst for MGS to change from "mapped reels" to dynamic-slot-reels, or... If the complexity of slots were out-growing the use of "mapped reels".

FYI...The early MGS slots such as 7 Oceans (released: 15'th June 1999), like all their later slots (Spring Break, Thunderstruck, Ladies Nite, etc., etc) used "mapped reels". 7 Oceans, like all MGS slots now, use Dynamic Reels.

RTG - casinos could request a slot or slots be changed to 90, 92 or 95% RTP. This has always been an available option. However, any changes to a slot/s RTP is done by RTG. AFAIK...the casino operator can not change this themselves.

Rival - Didn't work with this provider much, hence, can only make and educated, facts based, guess. As such, lets refer to the Blackjack Fiasco at Tradition Casino (white label), later name changed to Gibson Casino. Tradition Casino was busted changing their Blackjack pay-out from 3:2 to 1:1. The excuse used, was setup as a "test" for in-house training, and wasn't supposed to go-live. However, it did, and players got royally screwed over. Aside from that, it proved a Rival Powered casino could change the Odds on any game. Based on that "fact", I'd guess slots RTP could also be changed by the operator too.

PlaynGO - Lets use VideoSlots.com as an example, given, I think their affiliate business model is unethical, to say the least. I believe the excuse used to lower PlaynGO slots was due to the higher Tax being charged by UKGC. I would think, based on the number of players they have, at most a 0.5% RTP reduction, would have sufficed. Have no idea if the casino operator can make these changes within the software, or if PlaynGO do it, either way, it's a rip-off.

I'm not au fait with other igaming software suppliers, hence can't comment on those. But it would seem, based on the above, RTP changes to slots happen a LOT more than players and affiliates are led to believe

 

[CL-Ed]

All Play'n Go slots have configurable RTP settings that are generally set to 5 levels that are around 96%, 94%, 91%, 87%, 84%. See attached example.

The Malta GA does not permit any of its licensees to set anything lower than 94%. The current setting should be readable in the in-game help file while you are playing, never mind the browser's web inspector. I can see Vavada is a Curacao "licensed" casino though so they can effectively do whatever they want as they aren't accountable to anyone.

 

[KasinoKing]

RTG - casinos could request a slot or slots be changed to 90, 92 or 95% RTP. This has always been an available option. However, any changes to a slot/s RTP is done by RTG. AFAIK...the casino operator can not change this themselves.

Rival - Didn't work with this provider much, hence, can only make and educated, facts based, guess. As such, lets refer to the Blackjack Fiasco at Tradition Casino (white label), later name changed to Gibson Casino. Tradition Casino was busted changing their Blackjack pay-out from 3:2 to 1:1. The excuse used, was setup as a "test" for in-house training, and wasn't supposed to go-live. However, it did, and players got royally screwed over. Aside from that, it proved a Rival Powered casino could change the Odds on any game. Based on that "fact", I'd guess slots RTP could also be changed by the operator too.

RTG: The 3 Low/Med/High settings were 91%, 94% or 95%, and 97.5%.
I know this for a fact as I had access to the actual RTG data sheets up to mid-2009.

Rival: Tradition was run by idiots or criminals (probably the former as the manager told me that skilful players got dealt more blackjacks than "ordinary" players...)
But I admit it was very worrying that Rival would even have a 1:1 option

As for their slots: The TRTP used to be stated as an exact NN% figure in the help files. Then it was removed completely, and later it was put back as being "about NN.NN%"
Their early regular slots were all stated as 96%, with a few iSlots at 97% and one at 99%.
From around 2009, nearly all new slots have had TRTPs in the 94-95% range, with a few shockingly lower than 94%.
I don't know for a fact, but I believe that the TRTP of Rival slots can NOT be changed by the operator or Rival themselves (unless they re-design the game, which they have done in several cases).

KK

 

[AussieDave]

@KasinoKing - thanks for clarifying the RTG options. I wasn't exactly sure, only going on memory from years gone by. Although I was a personal friend of Michael Staw (founder of RTG), never really promoted casinos powered by that software. Was always a MGS guy - always the big money for me there.

With regards to Rival. I recall way back around 2006 at CM, the Rival rep was taking feedback about their slot games. I recall people putting in suggestions about the "free spin" features on a number of slots such as 3 Ring Circus, Cleopatra to name a couple.

Whatever they did, the frequency of "free spin" features hitting, was changed on account of that feedback... So I'm still not sure if Rival Slots can changed the RTP or just fuck-around with the reels. But surely changing the reels would affect the RTP, wouldn't it?

Edit:
I'd play mostly 3 Ring Circus as well as Cleopatra.
Both those slots pay-tables were doctored. I recall the 3 scatters in Circus paid X, then later I only received 1/2 that payout. I can't recall any other pay-table wins increasing, hence that would also affect the RTP too.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/slots-at-rival-casino-sooo-tight.27382/post-261543

occasionally they alter the payout rates and sometimes even the paytable without notification.

What's alarm about those procedures is it would void any and ALL game auditing.

FYI - to conduct a truly bona fide game audit. The RNG albeit pseudo-random, needs to be audited by itself. Then the game is audited, again by itself. Finally, if all checks out, the RNG and game are put through a series of a few million simulated spins, to determine if the game is fair, and meets its intended TRTP.

I've always wonder if Rival slots are actually audited by a impartial auditing company. Speculation to that has been, they audit their games, but do so using a company with ties back to Rival and or their other subsidiaries/associates including Black Chip, Gaming Solutions, Unified Support Systems and Bonne Chance. Those are the ones I know of, but likely there are others.

 

[Aradi]

@KasinoKing Thank you for such a valuable information. I was looking for detailed explanation. Really appreciate your reply!

 

[Anayasius]

Nowadays, more and more casinos’ fans are favouring online gambling instead of land-based methods, due to the unique gaming experience which online gaming industry guarantees to casinos players.

 

[Seo_Team]

Hello, Yesterday we have big scandal on Russian / CIS market! Online Casino Vavada.com (Yes, yes they stolen name from Bovada.lv) change RTP in Book of Dead slots. From officialy RTP 96% to RTP 84% (that mean minus - 16 -EV).

As players wrote on Russian forum this slots give + 70% of all turnover on this casino, and + 70% turnover on all Play N'GO slots, because "Book of Dead" is the most popular slots in Play N'GO network.

The problem for Vavada and Play'N GO that players may check Play N'GO RTP slots via Google Chrome.

And results is absolutely shoking. This slot have different RTP in different casinos. In some casinos 96%, in some 94%. Most shoking results was in Vavada.com Casino - 84% (Officialy they declared 96%). Today Vovada return RTP to 96% and make statment that they will pay compensation for players.

But from my point of view "Change RTP option" is absolutely infair. Play'N GO must remove it ASAP! This is the same as fake software, where casinos owners may change RTP.

And now this was happens in Vovada.com 84% RTP. This is the same as you make bet on red/black on Roulette that contain 7 (!) zeros.

I can say you more, casino can change RTP at all slots and games

 

[jopaa]

Nowadays, more and more casinos’ fans are favouring online gambling instead of land-based methods, due to the unique gaming experience which online gaming industry guarantees to casinos players.

Helpful comment, good job! It is so nice to browse the "New Posts" category and only find this junk.

 

[DaftDog]

I can say you more, casino can change RTP at all slots and games

Another helpful comment that makes a claim without providing any evidence.

 

[AussieDave]

Another helpful comment that makes a claim without providing any evidence.

Plus @Seo_Team dug up this 4 year old thread. Acts like all the rest of bogus members, signing up to gain a link and posting useless crap to increase post count... FFS kick these tools to the curb @Guard Dog, because at some point genuine members will stop posting...