Vegas Affiliates: new T&Cs bigtime predatory

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

has anybody seen the new T&Cs at Vegas Affs?

They were posted at GAP by a credible source.

Vegasaffiliates not for life - Gambling Affiliate Place: Programs and Webmasters Forum

Maybe I missed that thread but I looked for it / there was mention in that thread that the T&Cs were taken down or something like that (I haven't had time to go look ... I came here first upon getting back to my PC cause I figured it was now known ... anyway I'll go investigate further and get back)

Before I go its worth noting that regardless of whether these new T&Cs are actually implemented or not, that there were certainly a possibility and as such VA should be watched closely now.


edit to add:

I went and copied T&Cs, here they are:

New affiliate system at VegasAffiliates
<HR style="COLOR: #e0edf7; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e0edf7" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->We are proud to present our brand new revamped Revenue Policy! This new scheme allows you to make more money and make the most of our multi brands flexibility! So what's new?
* NO MORE negative revenue from month to month!
* All brands will be counted as one account! So in case you have tiered plans with us it's a great way to get more!
* Non active affiliates will enjoy 10% revenue of the first year so even if you are taking a work break or have no traffic, you can still enjoy 10% for the entire year! We are still working on the new system under a beta-phase. This means that some of your stats will take a little longer to decipher but don't worry, we are fixing this delay and thank you for your patience. If you experience any difficulties or have any questions please email us any time.

contact us for details!
Affiliate team
<!-- / message -->

 

[Guard Dog]

Thanks for posting those!

We constantly track T&C's and (so far) no new T&C's have surfaced for Vegas Affiliates. From what I understand, these were posted as 'future T&C's' at CAP.

So - at this point the terms are the same. Additionally, we sent an email to Vegas Affiliates recently and are awaiting a response.

It would be VERY disappointing if they implemented some of the changes they had suggested were coming.

Thanks again for posting that info here BB1!

 

[bb1webs]

totally agree. I think if they go ahead with that ... they are pretty much rogue.

If they go ahead with this we at gap are going to try and set up some kind of support network where people who can ... will sign up as players to save someone who's got a lot invested into VA ... but that doesn't want to be continued in a cycle that traps them into having to send new players all the time.

We'd let the aff who stands to lose ... pay for the deposit ... but this way that trapped affiliate can invest a mere $25 a month to contine gaining their full income while not having to send quality players into that cycle.

 

[dominique]

I was hoping more people would comment and let them know what we think.

It's not easy watching the effectiveness of something I worked for, for so many years, destroyed.

Since Vegas Aff don't look at emails apparently, I am at a loss as to how to get their attention to the fact that everyone feels strongly about this and they will be biting themselves.

Shoot me for this comment, but I think the programs will make good use of CAP's current weakness and in the end we all will suffer for everything that two people did. Before the mess we succeeded in reversing every darn quota and breach of contract. The first issue coming in after the scandal was Grand Prive. I have a nagging feeling that affiliates are pretty much screwed now. I can see more and more programs doing quotas and whatever they like...

I think there will be a ripple effect throughout the industry. Times are not good and the bigger programs are not as affluent as they used to be, they will use this opportunity to just do with us as they please.

There will always be new, hungry ones who will seek their niche by treating affs well, but for those of us who have spent years builing up player bases, I think we are screwed.

Personally, I am losing big time with Grand Prive and Vegas Aff. I will have to lay off some great, loyal, long term staff who have families.

Times were good when we all cooperated closely. Now we are all splintered, there is a big gap where once we held hands, and the horses are leaving the stable.

 

[bonustreak]

I have been busy the last few days or would have commented sooner on this but your right Dom if these do go into affect we will have to get a game plan and fight them on this hard core! I personally am not happy with the new beta program they have either it makes me wonder if tracking is even correct.

Grand Prive boy they sure got by with this didn't they...

 

[WCD Admin]

We used to have VA on our site as a flat media buy - but what I made as an affiliate was no where near what I made selling "flat advertising." Without going into it, I've always felt they were ripping off the affiliate model.

I just looked, we still rank #1 for 'grand hotel casino' #4 for 'colosseum casino' #3 for 'minivegas n.v.' So far this year we made : -207$

 

[inspiration]

Whatever VA plans to do in the future once a program has come up with this stupid idea imagine the idea behind this all.......cut off expensive affiliate costs.......just like 888 does......if you send traffic you are ok.......once you do not they will bite you.

Better forget any attempt to promote fishy programs, you will be sorry sometime..

 

[dominique]

Better forget any attempt to promote fishy programs, you will be sorry sometime..

Trouble is these were not fishy before. They just switched course. I have been promoting Vegas Aff for some 7 years, with good results.

I have been promoting Grand Prive almost that long, back when they were Referspot, also with good results.

I always thought I would be in this for the long run, picked stable, reputable programs and went about building up a reliable player base.

I have a nice, stable player base at both of these programs. For all the good that does me.

All these years I have built relationships with programs and built playerbases, looking into the future.

I got royally screwed and I don't trust any of them anymore. The best aff manager is helpless when the company changes course.

Luckily I promote many different programs and so I am not totally screwed.

This can only hurt good programs, because I am way leery of sending too many players to any one place anymore.

 

[bb1webs]

Grand Prive boy they sure got by with this didn't they...

I tend to agree but at same time ... I'm not thru yet.

I don't know how much more proof I need to say that we as affs really need to barbeque grand prive to set example. I don't feel we all did enough.

I don't feel I did enough but then again I have held off trying to campaign for further retribution because Lou was suppose to talk to them in London.

Things for myself have been stalled since then because there was so much more going on.

.......

Now here's a curious curve; I hear that eCogra has chosen to back grand prive?

If that's the case then eCogra is a joke because this is clearly breaking contracts and as such no casino in that group should be considered sound for player participation. I really fail to see upon any leg the grand prive group have to stand.

 

[WCD Admin]

Isn't here about the point that someone at CAP would chime up and say "eCogra" only deals with the player side of things? Although I agree with you Steve. That's crap. How can you only judge one portion of someones business and then give the OK green light to the customers.

If you are going to be a watchdog group, clearly you should pay attention to all aspects of the business you are watching.

It's like guarding the FRONT door of a bank. Ummmm, what about the backdoor? don't robbers coming through the back door count?

So I really hope you are wrong about that

 

[bb1webs]

Well I agree to that eCogra is suppose to be about player aspects but players trust has been breached by ignoring affliliates.

There are many players who join these casinos based on the recommendations of their gambling guides and with the understanding that if something goes wrong they can contact their guide for assistance.

Of course that isn't going to happen when a "grand prive" is pulled. Therefore UNLESS some sort of official statement by eCOGRA telling players ... each and every one ... of what has happened and that is therefore why the player can no longer count on the backing of their gambling guide in this instance ... and make it damn clear that it IS NOT the fault of the gambling guide but rather that because grand prive has chosen to NOT HONOR THEIR PROMISE TO PAY ...

that until that happens then how can eCOGRA be considered a credible source to trust for being a true player-sided entity and not one that is in fact just another SAFEBET ...created by the owners to give their properties credibility.

Because it doesn't take an affiliate to see that it is a bad idea to continue gambling at a place which doesn't HONOR its word. In fact that is what i would say as a gambler ... from a gamblers point of view ... the most dangerous place to ever risk my money short of some place I know has rigged games.

any argument to that?

This grand prive thing is far from dead as I have already begun the wheels ... slow though they may turn on my wagon ... to try and revigor a blacklist campaign that involves a more front page approach.

More soon.

 

[bonusgeek]

This is really disappointing and not what I expect from such a reputable program. I am hoping they just threw that out as a feeler and will reconsider implementing these changes.

Please reconsider doing this VA. I guarantee your walking over $100 bills to pick up pennies here. Right now you have a great reputation and players love your casinos. Please don't throw this all away for a few pennies, its not a good business decision. If you do this it will give your program a black eye forever and you can't put a dollar figure on that revenue lost when affiliates drop you. I love working with you guys as do many affiliates, and we really don't want to make any changes so please continue to run your business with integrity. I promise this will pay you big dividends once microgaming reenters the market!!!

Kevin V

 

[TreasureChest]

Trouble is these were not fishy before. They just switched course. I have been promoting Vegas Aff for some 7 years, with good results.

I have been promoting Grand Prive almost that long, back when they were Referspot, also with good results.

I always thought I would be in this for the long run, picked stable, reputable programs and went about building up a reliable player base.

I have a nice, stable player base at both of these programs. For all the good that does me.

All these years I have built relationships with programs and built playerbases, looking into the future.

I got royally screwed and I don't trust any of them anymore. The best aff manager is helpless when the company changes course.

Luckily I promote many different programs and so I am not totally screwed.

This can only hurt good programs, because I am way leery of sending too many players to any one place anymore.

I think one of the ways to discourage the casinos from ripping us off is to rogue the software vendor as well. The software companies should step up to the plate and police their own vendors as well. Other industries do this to protect their reputation. I would bet that if microgaming was put on a rogue list, they would cry but if their reputation was put on the line, they would reign in the rogues and force a higher standard. Right now we are going to pay the price while they profit... this industry needs some policing from the top down and so far I do not see it... just a bunch of software vendors from 3rd world countries selling their wares at the highest bidder to anyone with money who sets out to scam affiliates and cheat players. Grand Prive is just the start and my guess is more are on the way after they fill their coffers with players sent by our efforts. Anyone promised a million from nigeria lately?.. nuff said!

 

[bonustreak]

I think one of the ways to discourage the casinos from ripping us off is to rogue the software vendor as well. The software companies should step up to the plate and police their own vendors as well. Other industries do this to protect their reputation. I would bet that if microgaming was put on a rogue list, they would cry but if their reputation was put on the line, they would reign in the rogues and force a higher standard.

I don't know they have such a no one can touch us attitude I hoping a day comes when they are brought down a few levels!!

 

[Guard Dog]

I agree that we need to start roguing at the casino level. It HAS to affect the bottom line or it won't matter. Seriously. End of story.

 

[TreasureChest]

I agree that we need to start roguing at the casino level. It HAS to affect the bottom line or it won't matter. Seriously. End of story.

As a minimum, the software vendor HAS to be mentioned at the same time as the rogue. Rogue by association is a good start... Just mentioning the rogue is not enough... mention all that are involved (the vendor) will have better impact.

 

[bb1webs]

agree with mention, but if I understand correctly you want to rogue the software provider therefore nixing play at any casino using that software?

I think if you rogued every software provider that hasn't stepped up and policed their licensees ... well 2 things. 1 is I don't think you'd have any casinos left to promote lol

2. It wouldn't be fair to casinos that have done nothing to deserve being rogued based on something their parent software provider has or hasn't done.


I do agree with the mention because I know I always made a point to mention that MGS had always made sure players got paid. I guess I can still claim that ... just asterisk it and note they are not as concerned about affs which I would hope that MGS has not been blind to what an overwhelming difference affs have made to online gambling and especially to their cause in particular.

I would hope they would see that this is not something we as affs wanted to see happen nor that we take any pleasure in wasting valuable time ... but we get crapped on more often than Pampers ... only its not in our job description and this is the worst yet.

How can we allow this to go by? We cannot.

 

[dominique]

Well, these T&Cs haven't passed yet, they only tested the waters for it at CAP. Of course the lack of responses will lead them to believe no one cares.

 

[Daera]

Although the reason we stopped responding was because we're waiting for them to respond to us isn't it? At least for me.

I never got a reply to my mail sent a couple weeks back, or the pm left at cap. I just sent them another email. And the old Affiliate Manager just pointed the string at CAP out to them and asked them to let the marketing manager know that it needs to be responded to, as well as affiliate emails. (Something like that)

Hopefully I get a reply to my email soon. I hate the no reply thing.

 

[dominique]

They have always been bad on replies, ever since Pierrick left years ago. But they are certainly watching the feedback.

Three or 4 people complaining sure doesn't do the trick anyway.

Maybe if they got a deluge of mail.... so much they really couldn't answer...