Words Are Cheap - Actions Speak the Truth!

[AussieDave]

How long would it take VS web developers to update the slots battle chat area and, the assoicated slot battle feed info for each individual slot battle?

My guess... A hell of lot longer than it would take to reinstate the "deposit stats" etc., etc.

This is the new slots battle console, which was released today.

My point?

If they sincerely gave a toss, those "deposit stats" would have been completed already. Instead affiliates and even this forum are blown off with further delays and excuses...just sayin!

 

[Shay]

My experience in this industry has suggested to me that those who are behind the program (think higher up the food chain than affiliate managers) will take as much rope as we (the affiliate community as a whole) will permit them to have.

4-5 years ago, I could count on most all during conference months to pay late. When queried on why the payments were late, we'd hear "sorry mate, LAC was this month. You know how it is..." After hearing this over and over again, I made it my mission to take one term - "on time payments" and make it an important talking point in all affiliate forums. What I know is that it is ridiculous and unprofessional to have events and holidays on the calendar months in advance and conduct one's self as if they were blindsided by the event or the holiday to the point that they simply left it undone until afterwards. I like to think that programs are more focused on paying affiliates on time than they were a few years back due in part to my efforts and I will never quit calling programs out on the carpet for violating their own payment terms. However, if a program communicates a delay in advance, then I have no problem giving them some additional rope and understanding because they've given the community a heads up.

My feeling is that if other affiliates and affiliate forums each took an issue that is important to them with respect to affiliate terms or practices and made it their mission to address, our collective lives would be made so much easier. Of course, when we all step on one another's toes - life becomes more difficult. When an affiliate points out that a program has passed on a ton of fees to us, it makes no sense to me for another affiliate to come back with "well, this program is worse so quit picking on them." FFS, support your fellow affiliate! Support efforts to make fees fully disclosed and fair to us. Support efforts to get more transparency and less excuses! Quit making excuses for programs and their management and please quit accepting excuses from programs!!! If program x is worse than program y, it does not make either program "acceptable". Speak up and inspire change rather than prostituting on behalf of slightly less program y!

There are too many people shilling for a program and defending the program at all costs because the affiliate manager sends them a box of crackers for Christmas. I can both disagree with a program's way of conducting business AND respect, as well as like the affiliate manager who is working for the program. There are many programs and managers that fall into this category for me. I'm not going to name drop, as it would not be fair to that particular manager or managers when in reality - this is a general rant.

I also have the ability to disagree with and/or dislike a term or specific business practice of a program and despite that, continue to work with them. I have no issue calling a program on a term or feature that I dislike. If a program does not share enough info by default, I have a problem with that regardless of whether I work with them or not and regardless of whether I am making 100 quid or 10,000 quid with them. I'm not one that takes the posture of "as long as I'm being paid well by them, I'm not going to complain". If it is wrong or needs improved, then it is wrong and needs improved. I'm not going to be quiet nor am I going to defend the program when others find fault in the forum. I will not derail another man or woman's mission if it is to improve the affiliate community as a whole and nor should anyone else.

We as a community of affiliates need to push for more stats shared with us, full disclosure of fees, and proper/fair terms. No one else is going to do this for us - at least not to the point where it satisfies the community. Too much money and sponsorship deals get in the way of such a thing in my opinion. And let's be honest, a program is not going to pay for sponsorship if the forum owners are going to bust their balls. They have a vested interest in not rocking the boat too hard (themselves). I don't care if the sponsorship money is high or low, there's a vested interest in maintaining the relationship. Thus, the community members need to be the sounding board and my hope is that the forum owners are not working against their community of affiliates - though I often question whether this is the case or not.

My point for all:

1. Demand accountability and transparency from programs.
2. Support fellow affiliates who are working to achieve #1.

 

[Biti]

Great post of Shay. They do things like this because it seems they can.

A lot of affiliates simply:

- just look at the CPA, % or hybrid they get and don't have a look how it's calculated. Most affiliate managers aren't even able to explain how their own program calculates NGR. Because of this, I suppose almost nobody is asking about it.
- promote brands because the affiliate managers are high-fiving them at conferences or invite them to some event.

I've heard also some brands complaining. They had a pretty low fee, which is in favour of affiliates. The fee wasn't even covering all realistic costs. It was almost impossible for them to get top exposure at some sites because affiliates just look at the %. Some prefer to get 50% at a program with a doubtful reputation and high fees instead of 40% at a program with fees that were way too low.

 

[AussieDave]

Well said Shay!

(I'll prempt this with a... sorry if this offends anyone, it's not my intention to do so. My only concern is for affiliates and players, that both are treated fairly, void of bias)

I've coped a mountain of crap over the years, for simply trying to make this industry better for affiliates and, players alike.
The way I see it, it's either fair treatment or it's not. There's no 'grey area'.

Of course, I'm good enough to have on someone's side when it suits their agenda (names withheld) BUT when it doesn't suit, then more often than not, I'm dragged over the coals, publicaly chastised, or much worse, character assassinated. Some of my affiliate friends reckon I'm nuts for posting on aff forums, who don't appreciate my integrity.

But it's not about me, I don't do this just for me... Instead, it's all to do with 'Keeping The Bastards of the Industry Honest'. That way I also get some protection.

Laying it on the line, I joined AGD because it seemed different to the GPWA. Sadly the GPWA seems to puts dollars 1'st before its members (affiliates) welfare. But lately, I'm not so sure even about this place anymore. Names will remain nameless, but I've experience 1'st hand bias toward a program manager, who was stepping well over the line (abusive) in PM's to me. I made contact with an Mod/Admin(?) requesting a cease and desist intervention. What did I get? Ignored!

Instead, that person rallied for the manager, even though he'd clearly stepped over the line!
It's these type of vested interests which do ALL affiliates (and I'll add players) a severe injustice.

The BIG Problem is... Too many people, wearing too many hats, when it should be, 1 hat only. Mods/Admins - it's a 100% unbiased stance, end of story!

When I ran the AWAA (2010/2012) one of the sponsors (a program I was making some serious cash with). When the Cyprus Bank Fiasco erupted, this program/casino(s) owed money to both players and affiliates. I cut them three (3) weeks grace, on the proviso they'd get everyone squared away. Three weeks later they'd not lifted a finger, so I breached them in accordance with the AWAA sponsorship T&C's. Apart from coping a threat of physical abuse and, some other choice words, they ended up clearing ALL the debits within a few days of being breached.

They never renewed their sponorship. However, money has never been my GOD, so that didn't concern me. What did concern me at the time (and still does to this day), is that affiliate's commissions are honoured (in accordance to the programs T&C's), and players are paid within acceptable industry time-frame standards, along with fair treatment for ALL.

Some people say I have a bad attitude and I'm aggressive. That's only true when I'm feed Horse$hit, semantics and outright lies by aff programs &/or casinos.

Reiterating, VS aff program should not have been removed from the DogHouse until ALL the stats were reinstated. I can almost guarantee 99.999%, if that course of action had been taken, this thread, and many like it, would not be here. 2+ months we listened to Miles talking crap in riddles and deflecting.

VS kicked to the DogHouse... Question about fees etc., they couldn't be answered quick enough.

And for the record, I'm not just singling VS Affiliates out here. There are plenty of other instances where programs should have been breached long ago, but weren't. Affactive, Brightshare, GoWild and others too. But instead, excuses are made for them, which all that does is allow them to mistreat affiliates, and players alike.

The AGD affiliate forum is supposed to be about "Protecting Affiliates Interests".
So my question is... How is allowing these programs carte blanche (to do and say what they please), how is this "protecting affiliates interests"???!!!

1. Demand accountability and transparency from programs.
2. Support fellow affiliates who are working to achieve #1.

My thoughts exactly...

 

[Guard Dog]

AGD has never let sponsorship dollars (big or small as you say) get in the way. You can ask many a pissed off AM about this. You don't have to believe it... that is of no consequence. What is of consequence (to me and those who help me out) is that my conscience is clear, that I built this forum only to help, and that I feel good about that. At the end of the day, reading all the threads, and being blasted by the few - that is the only thing that keeps me going.

As far as the original intention of the thread:

We also have to realize that it is very much in their best interest to stay ahead of the 1000's of other casinos out there. I agree they could have done the stats instead of put the effort into this. I guess it is the matter of what the ownership team felt was the most important. I seem to recall that they stated openly that there were programmers already on big tasks that they couldn't take off those tasks. Maybe this is one of them. I'll find out for sure.

As far as the end of @AussieDave 's post:

As far as 'keeping them in the doghouse' (VS) - yes, that is my decision.. And I stick with it. I do know what I am doing even if you may not understand my methodology. I've gotten a lot of things done over the years and will do my best to continue those efforts. That's all I can do - work with what I know works.

No one is allowed 'carte blanche', never have been. I think most know this, but sometimes those type of 'all or nothing' sentences paint a picture that is far from reality - so I felt it worth responding to.

 

[Frank]

I seem to recall that they stated openly that there were programmers already on big tasks that they couldn't take off those tasks. Maybe this is one of them. I'll find out for sure.

What big tasks? I mean the deposit column exists... it has to otherwise they wouldn't know who deposited what, it's hidden... these are all really weak excuses, you guys are really sucked into all this? .. the added the fees now they just need to make it all fit with the deposits.....

 

[slotplayer]

Clear any cookies, have someone open an affiliate account, use an unpublished affiliate link, open a players account under it and see what is what.

 

[Jack Lee]

Which programs actually show full stats including break down on calculation + deposit and withdrawal stats?

 

[KasinoKing]

Which programs actually show full stats including break down on calculation + deposit and withdrawal stats?

Apart from the likes of Rival & RTG operators, I can't think of ANY EU facing ones off the top of my head.

Even the likes of Full Cream don't give any details of their fees... though it does look like their "admin" is paid for by the remainder of the NGR after affiliates commission is paid.

KK

 

[AussieDave]

added the fees now they just need to make it all fit with the deposits.....

Yes they've added the fees etc, so why haven't the deposits been added? No need to answer that one, I already know.

 

[AussieDave]

No one is allowed 'carte blanche', never have been.

Double standards are riff here...just sayin... but that's another topic.

In so far as programs...I recall not that long ago when GoWild were busted with that doorway page capper - the usual MO of excuses and defending their actions followed. Even their latest stunt, that too was defended vigerously by the Mods/Admins, least until you had no-other-choice but to mark them predatory. There are heaps of other examples...

How many affiliates joined up here, stating, Affactive contacted them requesting placements with CPA deals. Yet, when it came time to pay these affiliates, AA reneged, citing fraud (IKR how ironic), I recall a fair few of them. They were pretty much treated with contempt. Maybe this is why a couple got bent out of shape, they couldn't believe the excuses and defending of AA either!

The point is... Affiliate forums are ghost towns without members. With active members posting, the forum has a chance to earn some dollars. However, when programs are given bias, and yes "carte blanche" too. And, when too many different hats are worn by those running the show (or helping to run it), everyone of these people (paid or not) should only be wearing 1 hat. And that hat is about being 100% unbias. When that doesn't happen, then members welfare falls 2'nd on the list.

Exactly what's happening now with VS. No line in sand is drawn, instead more excuses, more white noise and, more delays... Spin that how you like, but reiterating, it's AGD members who are suffering on account of these permitted and stalling delays (they've had over 3 years to fix this problem but chose not to).

And, this forum continue to allow them to do so. That sounds and looks an awful lot like "carte blanche" to me!

 

[Guard Dog]

lol. yeah, ok Dave.

 

[TheGooner]

It was almost impossible for them to get top exposure at some sites because affiliates just look at the %.

We never promise ANY exposure to a program - it's OUR choice basic on final reviewed metrics, program performance, current events and overall site design.

It's funny how some AM's are stuck back in the 1990's thinking that they can buy "above the fold" spots with a high headline offer.
FFS - Have you seen a mobile phone viewport? Nothing is "above the fold".