Affactive Closed my Affiliate Account

[Rhondagrace]

Hi Everyone,

Back in July Affactive had full knowledge that I was tagged to my slots jungle account and they proceed to do nothing. meaning, they didn't untag my account. of course, I didn't make anymore deposits to slots jungle, but I started depositing at win palace and casino titan.

long story short when I asked about my September commission I was told that my win palace account was also on my tag. I opened my win-palace player account on 12/09 I requested them( rick) to close all my player accounts, as I would no longer be depositing at any of there casinos. not only did he close my player accounts he also closed my affiliate account. and didn't pay me my commission

My question to you is, who's responsibility is it to remove the player account from the affiliates tag. is it my AM or me? as I didn't have any knowledge I signed up through my own tag. I didn't open the account on my tag on purpose, and I didn't know anything about this thing with cookies.


I would usually grab my banners and put out the new casinos promos first, and if I wanted to play at the casino I would type in the web Addy in my browser and proceed from there.


I feel Affactive did not play fair with me, by not closing my player accounts that were linked to me. and closing my affiliate account because of this, only when I requested my September commission, was my affiliate account locked! or closed.

I would appreciate any feedback about this issue and if this has happened to you, and was anything done about it.

Thanks!

 

[Guard Dog]

Probably should have posted this in the Affactive forum so that they could respond to a notification they received...

Regardless, on the surface I agree with you 100%. Earnings are earnings. But I do have a couple of caveats to this, such as:

1. It is the player's duty to request their account be untagged from their own affiliate account. It is not the programs' duty to troll for player accounts for those playing on their own affy tag (IMO). Now - it is to their benefit to do so, but not their responsability.

2. If you had earnings from your player account that were equivalent (or more than) your remaining affiliate commissions from other players - then you are owed $0.


So - outside of those conditions - they should pay up (IMO).

 

[Daniel]

Hi Rhonda,

Since 1st of August, all your affiliate earnings were generated by you playing at our casinos.

Your affiliate account has been closed because you clearly broke the rules of our partnership (and T&C).

In any case, if you will have any future earnings as an affiliate from true players that you brought in the past- they will be sent to you as usual.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Probably should have posted this in the Affactive forum so that they could respond to a notification they received...

Regardless, on the surface I agree with you 100%. Earnings are earnings. But I do have a couple of caveats to this, such as:

1. It is the player's duty to request their account be untagged from their own affiliate account. It is not the programs' duty to troll for player accounts for those playing on their own affy tag (IMO). Now - it is to their benefit to do so, but not their responsability.

2. If you had earnings from your player account that were equivalent (or more than) your remaining affiliate commissions from other players - then you are owed $0.


So - outside of those conditions - they should pay up (IMO).

 

[bonustreak]

I find it funny that you are calling affiliates out on breaking rules when all your company does is spam the hell out of players and affiliates. You cross market and I know you claim that you don't but we both know you do. I also find it funny you have stopped responding to my many forwarded spam mails I send you with these cross marketing attempts. If your not cross marketing then you have possibly paid for a emailing list etc who knows but I know I am sick of your spam!!

Now a question what if you acquire a brand and the previous owner had no problem with an affiliate playing under their own affiliate account what then? Are you going to close their account? Just curious how that works and still I just don't understand the big deal most places like Intertops and Jackpot Capital don't care if affiliates play under their account so if I was you Rhonda I would go where and send your traffic to a place that is accepting not to mention trust worthy.

 

[dominique]

I can totally see how Rhonda ended up inadvertently playing under her own tag - I hadn't even ever thought of cookies myself!

Obviously you can pick up cookies when testing links on your site. Then you are tagged to your account even if you at some later point type in the casino address if you want to play there.

I was quite sure that I was never tagged to any of my accounts, but now I am not so sure. Maybe I am tagged to all of them.

Yikes, I won't have anyone to promote!

Since I hate clearing cache because of all my logins, I'll have to quit playing at any place I promote. Now how am I going to test or review?

 

[Daniel]

Hi Dominique,

I've never checked, but I know we had affiliates playing under their tags while testing the casino and that's fine. It's not fine when the only player that plays at the affiliate account is the affiliate himself. In that case if the player wins- he wins. if he loses- he gets cash back. And if he wins one month and loose in the next- he will earn even more because of no-negative carryover policy.

Bonustreak: It seems that no matter what we say, you will continue to accuse us of cross marketing. However, please allow me to repeat: We do not cross market. We never did and we have absolutely no intention of ever starting.

I have to say, it is very frustrating that every week we have to deal with your accusations, mainly because we both know that no matter what I do or say, i cannot prove my words.

As one of the moderators of this respectable forum, we would really appreciate it if you would be more objective about such matters.

Kind regards,
Daniel

I can totally see how Rhonda ended up inadvertently playing under her own tag - I hadn't even ever thought of cookies myself!

Obviously you can pick up cookies when testing links on your site. Then you are tagged to your account even if you at some later point type in the casino address if you want to play there.

I was quite sure that I was never tagged to any of my accounts, but now I am not so sure. Maybe I am tagged to all of them.

Yikes, I won't have anyone to promote!

Since I hate clearing cache because of all my logins, I'll have to quit playing at any place I promote. Now how am I going to test or review?

 

[bonustreak]

Shall I post here all the spam mails I get? I like that you do not address that issue. How then are you getting my email address for brands that you run to mail me promos? I have never in my life played at Slots Jungle but yet you send me mails with my full name and I have forwarded these to you so many times. Me being a moderator and team member here makes it all the more important for me to warn other affiliates of your spamming practices. I am not the only person sick of your spam trust me.

I can see why Rhonda would be the only player on that account if as you said her cookies did not clear then she probably inadvertently was tagged to her own account. I wonder if she had continued to lose on that account if there would have been an issue.

 

[Daniel]

Shall I post here all the spam mails I get? I like that you do not address that issue. How then are you getting my email address for brands that you run to mail me promos? I have never in my life played at Slots Jungle but yet you send me mails with my full name and I have forwarded these to you so many times. Me being a moderator and team member here makes it all the more important for me to warn other affiliates of your spamming practices. I am not the only person sick of your spam trust me.

We've addressed the spam issues that have been posted.

I can see why Rhonda would be the only player on that account if as you said her cookies did not clear then she probably inadvertently was tagged to her own account. I wonder if she had continued to lose on that account if there would have been an issue.

She is loosing- that's exactly why she has earnings as an affiliate

 

[greedygirl]

I've never checked, but I know we had affiliates playing under their tags while testing the casino and that's fine. It's not fine when the only player that plays at the affiliate account is the affiliate himself. In that case if the player wins- he wins. if he loses- he gets cash back. And if he wins one month and loose in the next- he will earn even more because of no-negative carryover policy.

Granted, because you have the term in place, it is your prerogative to enforce it. With that said, your reasoning AND the term itself is really nonsense.

Had Rhonda signed up a player account under someone else's affiliate tag, you would still be paying AN affiliate. The no-negative carryover has nothing to do with any of this.

One of my favorite moments in Budapest was when Rick and I had this very debate. Rick could not give any better reasoning than you have. He stated that 'most affiliate programs have this term.' I felt the need to bring a bit of reality into this, so...

While we were debating this issue, as other aff. managers were passing by, I'd pull them into our conversation. There were three or four AM's that I grabbed and each of them stated that their programs do not have any such term, nor does it make sense.

Now while I'm at it, this bit about the 'no-negative carryover,' has me chuckling a bit, considering you have these ridiculous terms in place involving 'player class,' laughable withdrawal limits and lengthy holds on withdrawal approvals:

All withdrawals are paid in installments of up to $3,000. This is determined according to player class. Withdrawal approval time can take up to 4 business days. You will be notified by email when we send out your winnings.

With terms like these, I'd imagine most winners of decent sums would end up playing their winnings back.

At the end of the day, you've now lost Rhonda as both a player AND an affiliate. I have no doubt she'll not be the only one.

 

[Daniel]

While we were debating this issue, as other aff. managers were passing by, I'd pull them into our conversation. There were three or four AM's that I grabbed and each of them stated that their programs do not have any such term, nor does it make sense.

I think that 99% of the programs have this rule. Same as for us it is inforced only in this type of situation: when the affiliate himself is the only one that playing on the account.
Affiliates and Affiliate Programs are business partners. In that case there is no partnership: since the one of the partners will loose, no matter what happens.

I've checked now 4 most respectable affiliate programs- they all have this term. I'll PM you in a sec.

Kind regards,
Daniel

 

[belgamo]

I got caught up in being tagged to myself at two places, before I now make sure i do not do this again. Rewards affiliates and Inetbet. At rewards affiliates, Renee simply removed me from being tagged and that was it, as far as Inetbet, my account was tagged WITH CARRYOVER all earnings I accrued on my own play, so even as I earned they took it back to cover what I made on myself.
No one closed my accounts. Other casinos DO allow players to play on thier own aacount, the only one i am aware of that i play on my tag is at the playshare group, and its perfectly ok.

I would suspect that going the Inetbet way would be the way for you to go with Rhonda, to tag her account with all she has earned from her own play and have her work it off by bringing players.



On a side note, I suspect ALOT of the spam emails are coming from the casino titan database being sold, I was offered this several months back. It was either right before or right after Affactive got the casino, so seems old casino titan employees cashed out at the end. I passed as this is not the way I operate, but I suspect many affs bought the list.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Yea, the same happened to me at SpartanSlots (AffiliateWide), I had noticed this the other day and had to ask Steve to untag me from my own account.

I can only imagine that I got tagged to my own account there because I was already a player and affiliate at both Box24 and Blackdiamond and when they added Spartan I went ahead and added their banner/links before I signed up at Spartan for my player account.

I've not checked though since I last spoke to Steve last week but I hope he got me untagged from my own account there.
____
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[greedygirl]

I think that 99% of the programs have this rule.

Daniel--this is simply not so. While I admit that many programs do employ this, a good number using this term simply EXCLUDE the affiliate from earning commission on their own play. This still allows the affiliate to play without fear of accidentally playing on a tag that was cookied while testing the link. In fact, two of the programs you pointed to, states that:

"Sloto'Cash Casino " reserves the right not to pay an affiliate partner for any activity on their account that was generated by:
1) The Affiliate;
2) Relatives of the Affiliate (IE Wife; Son; Daughter; In Laws: Aunt, Uncle);
3) Friends in the case where geographic and demographic repetitive occurrences relative to the Affiliate that would allow the visible understanding and to ascertain a basis of collusion to constitute fraudulent activity to network, perpetrate, and to create "false" deposits to make them appear as "real" deposits in the Affiliate Program to receive the monetary gain in and from the "Sloto'Cash Casino" Program.

Regards to C-Planet:

Real New Players. A "A "Real New Player" shall mean an Internet user who accesses the Casino Site directly through a Link, opens a new user account and make the required minimum deposit in such account, and plays on the Casino Site. Neither you nor your relatives are eligible to become Real New Players and should you or they do so you will not be eligible to receive the relevant commission. For this purpose, the term "relative" shall mean any of the following: spouse, partner, parent, child or sibling. The number of Real New Players per individual household computer is strictly limited to one.

Omitting commissions due to self-play is one thing--terminating the affiliate for doing so is something completely different. I can't imagine how many affiliates have mistakenly played on their own tags--no doubt it's happened plenty. The only difference here is that one of those affiliates happened to win and as such, now finds herself terminated.

Perhaps simply ommitting commissions on this would have been the wiser way to go. At least then, maybe you'd still have her as a player. The way this has been handled has only brought further negative attention to the way your group is handling things.

Goodwill goes a long way in this industry for players AND affiliates. You may want to focus on this a bit more.

 

[jimmiet]

I'll probably get hosed down for saying this but.....

In my opinion, there are two businesses that if you own them you should never sample the goods.

Casino

Strip Club

Go fish ;D ;D

 

[dominique]

Consider yourself hosed!

I definitely want to see how support acts and a number of other things before I send my valuable players to any place. I want my players to be happy, so that if they are looking for another place lateron, they will come back to me because they trust that they will be treated right.

You can have all the expertise in SEO and such you want, if you want a business that weathers any number of crises over the years, you want happy customers. The search scene is continually changing, but customer loyalty will carry you through any number of mishaps.

Of course if you are in it for a quick buck, it doesn't matter.

But if you want a steady ride, it matters more than anything else.

 

[Rhondagrace]

Daniel--this is simply not so. While I admit that many programs do employ this, a good number using this term simply EXCLUDE the affiliate from earning commission on their own play. This still allows the affiliate to play without fear of accidentally playing on a tag that was cookied while testing the link. In fact, two of the programs you pointed to, states that:



Regards to C-Planet:



Omitting commissions due to self-play is one thing--terminating the affiliate for doing so is something completely different. I can't imagine how many affiliates have mistakenly played on their own tags--no doubt it's happened plenty. The only difference here is that one of those affiliates happened to win and as such, now finds herself terminated.

Perhaps simply ommitting commissions on this would have been the wiser way to go. At least then, maybe you'd still have her as a player. The way this has been handled has only brought further negative attention to the way your group is handling things.

Goodwill goes a long way in this industry for players AND affiliates. You may want to focus on this a bit more.

Thank you, Greedy Girl I couldn't of said it better. as I said before I think all they had to do was untag me and leave my affiliate account open and I wouldn't be here complaining. remember they knew I was playing on my tag in July so why didn't they untag me then? now their double lost.. as they closed all of my player accounts, and affiliate account and kept my commission. if they were smart about this and knew how to handle things in a professional manner would of been to simply untag my account and pay me the commission I earned, and I would of continued to promote them and play at there casinos. now tell me who really lost out here?:emoticon-0120-doh:

 

[Daniel]

Hi Rhonda,

To make it clear: we haven't taken ANY of your legitimate earnings. If your real players will generate earnings in the future- you will be paid fully.
But, you do not deserve to get paid for earnings generated by yourself playing under your account, specifically that since August, 100% of your earnings were generated by your play. Btw, no one knew that you were playing under your account until a month ago and no one would even checked this, if you had additional players.

Why your account has been closed: Both sides need to agree in order to create successful partnership. Affiliates can chose which programs they want to work with. it goes the other way around as well.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Thank you, Greedy Girl I couldn't of said it better. as I said before I think all they had to do was untag me and leave my affiliate account open and I wouldn't be here complaining. remember they knew I was playing on my tag in July so why didn't they untag me then? now their double lost.. as they closed all of my player accounts, and affiliate account and kept my commission. if they were smart about this and knew how to handle things in a professional manner would of been to simply untag my account and pay me the commission I earned, and I would of continued to promote them and play at there casinos. now tell me who really lost out here?:emoticon-0120-doh:

 

[Rhondagrace]

Hi Rhonda,

To make it clear: we haven't taken ANY of your legitimate earnings. If your real players will generate earnings in the future- you will be paid fully.
But, you do not deserve to get paid for earnings generated by yourself playing under your account, specifically that since August, 100% of your earnings were generated by your play. Btw, no one knew that you were playing under your account until a month ago and no one would even checked this, if you had additional players.
Why your account has been closed: Both sides need to agree in order to create successful partnership. Affiliates can chose which programs they want to work with. it goes the other way around as well.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Daniel, this was checked by rick in september, your not answering my question, why did you allow me to continue to play for the month of September on my own tag??


To make it clear: we haven't taken ANY of your legitimate earnings. If your real players will generate earnings in the future-you will be paid fully.


How is this going to happen, you closed my account how am I suppose to know I made any commission from you, by your word?? pff ..you and I know this will never happen. so don't BS me. I requested a report of all sign ups from rick a week ago, and guess what!! he never responded

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Hi All

Daniel we can all play semantic but why bother!

As an Affiliate I always test any new link or banner I add to make sure it's tracking clicks. I doubt there are many affiliates that don't follow this protocol.

Each casino uses different cookie durations. Some kill the cookie when the browser closes, whilst others for example, their cookie stays active for 30 days or until the browser cache is cleared.

On a personal note and testimony to Rhonda, I've never known her to be unethical, it's simply not in her make-up IMHO.

Sure she may make few honest mistakes but who doesn't from time to time.

IMHO Rhonda would certainly not commence a thread if she was up to no good with opening and account under her aff tag.

The point is as greedygirl said:

Goodwill goes a long way in this industry for players AND affiliates. You may want to focus on this a bit more.

Cheers



Dave

 

[bonustreak]

We've addressed the spam issues that have been posted.

I am not sure when this was addressed but no matter I will not derail this important debate we have going on here. Why did you not call Rhonda and talk to her as an important business marketing partner and explain what has happened and simply untag her account? Why did you take the approach that you have taken and bully her? I am just confused on why you keep going on about her one and only player is herself, when if you would have simply untagged her player account from the affiliate account and left it open I am sure she would have pushed the casino more to send more players as it stands now she has no chance to do that.