How many affy programs steal your players?

[bb1webs]

Some think that Vegas will have a retarded approach because they are stepping into the game late but remember that once they do ... as was mentioned, the well is going to run dry fast for Rival and RTG won't be far behind.

I would guess that rather than have another MGM fiasco where they created their own software which was widely not appreciated, that this time around they will follow Harrahs lead and either team or more likely out right buy someone who is already on line.

And is there really a difference between "teaming" or being bought out by Vegas? I mean, either way, in the end the place will be run by Vegas making the decisions - or at least wise, I wouldn't want to be disagreeing with them very much if I were partners.

Lotso, good to see you around. Are you sure that post of yours about things being different, wasn't copied off something i wrote somewhere because man that I bet you could search using that post and 1st closest results would have been written by me.

I think you are spot-on. And hope you're as wrong as can be. ... sigh.

 

[Eugene]

I am trying to believe that sites listed on AGD and GPWA are not shawing. But who knows.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Till the software providers decide to do somthing to fix all this shit... nothing will change.

It wont happen as most software providers are in cahoots with the casino and the casinos operate the affiliate programs.

On a bright note, when Vegas enters the arena I highly doubt there will be any dodgy antics. It just would not be worth it and besides these casinos will be audited properly. They sure wont be using regulatory bodies who are in the back pockets of the casinos or software providers.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Aussie-Dave]

GFPC, drop EuroPartners pronto. I know an ex-employee from there and all I can say is that your instincts are correct.

I should mention for those that don't know, Euro Partners has been speculated as being in bed with the defunct Cpays. If you want to read about their dodgy program here are some threads:
Cpays Insider Reveals All

And BTW...Best Casino Partners has been claimed to be in cahoots & or run by ex Cpays management owners.
Do not Promote Best Casino Partners


Cheers



Dave

 

[Vladi]

cpays are not defunct. They renamed themselves to Affiliates United. William Hill bought them and now uses them as well.

 

[Baccarat]

Quick question guys, in one day I had about 30 hits with one of the casinos I'm promoting. Not a single sign up....weird right? And then with this other sportsbook/casino I'm promoting, I get like one hit a day and I ended up with a sign up.
30 hits/day = 0 signs up
1 hit/day = 1 sign up

How can that be???

 

[lots0]

Hi Baccarat,

You should really start another thread about this and not hijack this one.

But for a quick answer to your question:
You do not have enough traffic to make ANY kind of conclusions. You will need quite a bit more data before you can even start to figure what your real conversion rates are.

Page View to Click%
Click to Sign Up%
Sign up to Deposit%


(added) Those 30 hits could have all been from bots. For most new sites about 75%+ of their traffic is bots.

Quick question guys, in one day I had about 30 hits with one of the casinos I'm promoting. Not a single sign up....weird right? And then with this other sportsbook/casino I'm promoting, I get like one hit a day and I ended up with a sign up.
30 hits/day = 0 signs up
1 hit/day = 1 sign up

How can that be???

 

[Baccarat]

Thanks lots0 for the advice.

 

[GFPC]

You know its funny you say that. I honestly without reading this post or knowing anything about it thought to myself a number of times is Europartners and CPAYs both jerking off one another.

Let me put it this way. And this could happen anywhere where programs are in close proximity.

But these groups were referring to are all based out of ISRAEL right? Most I would imagine in Tel Aviv? and they all mingle in the same circles.. correct?

From my understanding there is a section where all these affiliate programs are located in a certain district.

I often see AMs jumping from one company to another - one day they are with program A next day Program B.. no problem there..

But it would seem possible (speculating) that more or less its a type of culture there where everyone sort of knows everyone - they all attend same parties, social gatherings ect ect..

I would think affiliations (trading of information) sharing lists would come natural in these types of environments. Certain big groups like Cpays - or Affiliates United now and Europartners often are in close contact and do infact communicate!

This is how mergers happen - at least that's what i think. I am not saying what they are doing is right or ethical - but the likely hood of it happening is so great that it probably is.

Not only that - but these programs are (again speculation) probably owning their own portals in the hundreds. All you need to do is look at tons of sites connected in networks - what do you see? All kinds of links pointing to william hill and their brands. And when you do some digging you see so many sites that are basically doing LINK WHEELS - all going to WH.

I am beginning to think the common goal with the big outfits who are merging is to get rid of affiliates all together. They won't need them. ALl the need is employees to run a handful of portals, and some SEO staff.

Operator - Affiliate Program - SEO company - Google! - that is the relationship line starting to happen.

What i think is also going to happen is this...

Operator - Affiliate Program/SEO/Portals - Google

Operators can bundle everything when Merging. They become huge owning several casino/poker programs.

Operator pays a huge budget to the affiliate department. The affiliate departments prime goal is to run all the portals they own, plus in house seo staff to get as much traffic and links pointing to the operator.

It is no longer going to be

Operator - Affiliate Program - Seo staff - - Portals - Google

Operators - ALL IN ONE (aff program,seo staff, network of portals) - Google.

Our days seem limited! as we lay here doing nothing much but whine and watch and yell out about how were being treated.

Seems like Affiliates need to band together maybe to create our own networks and become one big entity or at least several strong entities.

I guess the goal is in SEO and how Google delivers traffic.

I should mention for those that don't know, Euro Partners has been speculated as being in bed with the defunct Cpays. If you want to read about their dodgy program here are some threads:
Cpays Insider Reveals All

And BTW...Best Casino Partners has been claimed to be in cahoots & or run by ex Cpays management owners.
Do not Promote Best Casino Partners


Cheers



Dave

 

[Eugene]

I agree that affiliates should unite and have strong influence on the programs that outrage by stopping promotions, etc.

The second is that casinos won't refuse from seo. With their budget they become very powerful. But they can't cover all long tail keywords + very often it is possible to spend much less money to get rankings comparing to what they pay.

And the third. Any market that has good potential won't consist of small webmasters/merchants/companies. You can see that in mergers of super affiliates, etc. So this is free market.

All we can do now is to have AS BIG AS POSSIBLE influence on every affiliate program. They should pay in time and follow their T&C.

You know its funny you say that. I honestly without reading this post or knowing anything about it thought to myself a number of times is Europartners and CPAYs both jerking off one another......

 

[lots0]

I am beginning to think the common goal with the big outfits who are merging is to get rid of affiliates all together. They won't need them. ALl the need is employees to run a handful of portals, and some SEO staff.

I have been saying the same thing for for quite a while.

Why should the casinos pay out 25% to 45% to affs when they can acquire the player for far far less cost to them???

****

The idea of a large Aff network is a good one. The problem comes in the implementation. You have programs like the gpwa that have tried to set up networks of affs for SEO and have fallen flat on their faces. You can look to gpwa and see all the problems that trying to build a network of affs can cause... it's like herding cats, independent and suspicious cats...

The other problem with large networks is that google does not cut any slack to large networks that are set up to drive traffic... Google thinks that is their job and they really don't like competition.

But the bottom line is that we NEED to do something... or we are all going to be writting code for penneys...

 

[Aussie-Dave]

it's like herding cats, independent and suspicious cats...

lots0 that's a pearler, I'm still laughing. If I'd read that 30 sec earlier my monitor would be wearing my cup of tea.


Cheers



Dave

 

[GFPC]

Yeah lotso I agree... Its a difficult task. You make some great points!!

 

[Eugene]

The idea of a large Aff network is a good one. The problem comes in the implementation. You have programs like the gpwa that have tried to set up networks of affs for SEO and have fallen flat on their faces.

Could you tell more about this stuff (or provide with the link where it is possible to read)?

 

[lots0]

Could you tell more about this stuff (or provide with the link where it is possible to read)?

Not really any links or articles that I know of, most of this is just info that has been around for a long time and avaiable to anyone that watches this business.

 

[bb1webs]

it's like herding cats, independent and suspicious cats.

Perhaps the only thing I'd add to that is the word "Tom" because if you did manage to get them all in a space where you could have some control over them. ... they'd start killing each other, best intentions be damned.

Great one Lots.

.......

I just want to remind so if anyone reading this has any doubts, that these players we are talking about, and the casino networks which may be large now, ALL would not have happened had not been for the affiliates.

There's one thing I cannot stand its somebody who doesn't own up to their end of a deal after they've gotten theirs.

That kind should have a bounty on them same as any other incorrigible pest who's existence left unchecked, can ruin entire communities or eco systems.

.......

So please make NO mistake. These places would either not exist today, or they would be the smallest guppy in a lake full of fish, all bigger than them, if not for a deal they made a long time ago that went, If you will send us some players, we will GLADLY give you 25-50% (depending upon the deal of course).

And only NOW, that these places are raking in money, are the SOB's so freakin' greedy that they just can't bare with seeing that money leave every month so they make up every possible excuse, short cut corners and outright theft and then snub their noses at their victims (former partners).

Years later, when Karma (or call it as you will) catches up with them and they are miserable ... I wonder will it ever occur to them that had they done people right, honored their word, that they wouldn't be such lonely, sorry old pieces of sh#t that they ended up.

..............

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Lou]

Sometimes I have noticed problems with conversions when the book/casino uses a particular type of software. I always have poo conversions on Jazette book such as Sportsbook.com. Someone should think about investigating the affiliate software companies to see if they will give the merchants the ability to remove players from an affiliate sheet.

In regards to BetUS, they are one of my top affiliate programs and convert very well for me. No complaints about them, except for late payments (but I always end up getting paid eventually).

---
My Review of BetUS Partners

 

[dominique]

Over the years I have seen a number of "affiliate co-ops" trying to shape and every single one failed due to infighting and general disagreements.

But I have also seen a number of casinos trying to run their own set of portals and they all failed miserably. Mostly they didn't realize how much time and money it would actually take to create successful portals.

In the end, it is still cheaper for casinos to use affiliates or we would have disappeared long ago.

 

[Lou]

In the end, it is still cheaper for casinos to use affiliates or we would have disappeared long ago.

Aside from the work, money, and time it would take fore them to start their own networks of portals, they also have to pay new employees to run an maintain them; as opposed to hiring a few affiliate managers. They also don't want to spend time marketing something that doesn't actually promote their brand directly.

---
Cappersinfo Sports Handicapping

 

[Rhondagrace]

Hey how did this thread get bumped up the last reply was 01-26-2011 02:25 PM