Rewards Affiliates not paying and untagging High Rollers!

[CasinoQueen]

CasinoQueen​

I don't want to deter you from anything, but being an affiliate for more than 10 years now, I can say you have to get used to that complications will arise in most cases. Even with reputable programs I experienced strange things occasionally. Another common story is that you have some high rollers,who stay and deposit for years,then a change of ownership comes, and the new team will detag them or reduce the comission amount by changing the terms.

Your story with Rewards Affiliates sounds unfamiliar to me as far as the case is concerned. I have not experienced the exact same issue like this elsewhere. I couldn't judge who is right in this case, you or the platform staff, especially because I do not work with Rewards Affiliates. I also play sometimes, and in the past they fooled me with an actually fake bonus offer that I considered very unfair, so since then I avoid them, and it was Renée back then who was revising my case, too. I have never heard stories of them being big cheaters, but me and other players often felt they try to fool us with their offers. So I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to go a step further doing things like you described. I can imagine this in case of them easier than in case some other programs, for sure.

Thank You! I wish I had participated in discussions in these forums prior to this issue rather than just reading through them. I welcome the input and that's why I reached out here! I would love for RA to just explain to me how or what this decision was based on that I am supposedly "linked" to this player they untagged!

Clearly, If I have close friends and family who aren't disclosing to me that they can afford to spend over $25,000 on slot games I need to go make some calls and see who is hoarding the money and keeping secrets!!! LOL

 

[CasinoQueen]

This group was great back in the day- I am a 20+yr lifer like Aussie Dave They have changed plans many years ago, folks could choose but we did not find any of the plans they offered beneficial to us so we have removed all of their brands. There was issues with cross-marketing in the past. The team are great but I don't trust the company anymore. When they absorbed many of the Micro brands years ago we stopped making money, some of the brands they ate up we normally would make 10k or more from a month, once they took over we literally made only $. They got our players and reaped the benefits.

We make a few hundred residual a year off of old players but we do not actively market them anymore. I agree, maybe find brands that are converting well and let the dinosaurs lie..

Thank you for the input! I have so many questions now I wrote a bunch down to post in the appropriate threads! I am glad I am only 4 months in instead of 4 years and learning this!

 

[AussieDave]

Yes, I meant $25,000 wagered in about 6 weeks with this particular player.

25k wagered in about 6 weeks isn't a whale. The average turnover, on a deposit, at a standalone Microgaming casino, is approx10x.

Hence, we could use the average turnover and say this player deposited somewhere in the regions of: $2,500 (10x wagered), or worst case scenario... he/she only managed a 1x wagering:

• 1x wagering = $25K deposited (maybe on a $5/10 deposit) but in 20 years never seen it.

So we can be confident that this player deposited far less than $25K

A whale used to be classed as any player who deposited US$30K or more each month. These days that figure has servery dropped. These days, anyone who drops $5K a month is considered a Whale.

 

[AussieDave]

monies wagered by players in March 2021 went from $14,200 to $1500!!!!! My March commissions subsequently dropped from $185 to $20!!!

I AGAIN send an email and it was replied too that risk management said I had a link to one of my players and therefore confiscated commissions!!
What?!?! Who decided this and how?!? I have a website which I refer players through and absolutely do not have any links to any players!

I have subscribers of my site and that’s as far as it goes!

I immediately emailed back with follow up questions of how they came to that conclusion and how to clarify and clear it up to which I have yet to be responded too.

I also want to point out that after requesting my 50% first month commissions it was declined. Then when the sub affiliate signed up I was told I was given the wrong link but too bad they don’t reassign sub affiliates.

The last two issues weren’t huge to me and I let slide but now untagging a high roller with a very vague explanation and nothing backing it up and saying my total owed commissions went from $445 to $32!!!

There's a few things here that do not makes sense...

If your on the Wagering Model, then, I can not understand, how, your players wagering drops from $14,200 to $1,500???!!!

As far as the 50% in the first month, that IS only applicable to new affiliates who signup on the Revshare Model. It's not applicable for the Wagering Model.

Not having access to your data (take a screen cap of this data and post here)... I'm unable to really make head nor tail of what has happened.

However, the commission payment figure drops, these seem like TAX being deducted. I can not see any other reason for these reductions, other than TAX being garnished. Does Canada have a consumption tax?

 

[xecutable]

Weird, I communicate with CR via skype on day to day bases. Their skypes are in your affiliate backend, weird if you are in such a hurry and didn't get a response you didn't go for the skype contact right away or even better their phone numbers.

I'm aware of their past problems, but at the same time I haven't had issues with them since day 1, which of course does not make them flawless. I'm not here to belittle anyone's issues with CR. However are one of the companies that has no admin tax, so if they are in the business of screwing you, why not hit you there as well. Easy money for them.

Did you really have in mind fixing this issue? From the title of this thread, these are some pretty serious accusations, boldly stated without having a grasp of what even a high roller is.... Usually people looking for resolution state their issue with "Hey I have a problem can I get some assistance" , without a judgement and a verdict.

Makes me sad that on the internet everyone is guilty until proven otherwise, and the one who said something first has the edge. And then the crowd jumps in and continues the bashing without verifying the story. Plenty of sexual harassment cases that went sour for the accuser.

So following the same logic of 'Why should we trust program XYZ" comes "Why should we trust Affiliate XYZ that claims ABC? Is there anything you omit from your story? Obviously we can't look into your backend, your player's details, what payment methods they've used and if you are indeed are connected to them

Even worse the affiliate program representative, can't come here and list those for us either as they'd be exposing your private information. Basically with this thread you hold all the cards, where we can't verify what you say is true, but yet everything you say must be true from the responses I see here. Further more the claim is everything the risk management has told you is a lie.

If everything what you say is true and this was me, I'd give the program a written consensus to link everything from their end that would prove my innocence. If this is the full story, I apologize I may come off a little rude, but in 12 years, from everything I've seen and read, there's always something that affiliates leave out to present themselves as the victim.

 

[Alchemist]

When a player gets untagged his wagers goes away too. Also his wagers from the past, all his data. Happened to one of my friends in Wager Share model. But in most cases there is a reason for untagging (fraud, money laundering etc). My friend noticed, contacted Renee and she even agreed to pay all the past commissions from this player but she untagged him.

The case here is different though. The amount can go away or stay as it is. There isn't something in the middle.

I promote CR for 3-4 years and never had any problems with them, they were very good. I can say they are one of the best out there.

@CasinoQueen to answer your question if that's common, yes it is. High Rollers were manually removed by 3 different programs i work for. Nope, CR is not one of them.

 

[edgarf76]

Agree most programs who operate more than one (1) casino etc., cross-promote between their brands. However, there's ethical cross-marketing, and then there's unethical cross marketing (aka player theft).

The latter (unethical cross marketing) is where a program actively seeks to signup tagged players, but does not give credit to the referring affiliate. Instead, the program claims that player for themselves.

Back in 2011 there was a huge thread at the GPWA about RA cross marketing to tagged players, where the affiliate link was not being used. I was under the impression that was all fixed up.

A few month back now, but I was checking cookies, and discovered RA was not passing my affID tag, when clicking on links within CR site, and or their casinos.

Contacted Renee who claimed they'd updated their GDPR protocols (words to that affect) and that update must have broken the referring tagging. According to Renee, it was probably like that for 4 months.

My advice, trust no program. Run random cookies checks. If you can, sign up to a programs casino. If a program is conducting unethical cross marketing, then as a signed up player you'll find out

The other point worth noting is... I was informed last August 2020, that RA are now paying consumption taxes in New Zealand. A couple of things I found very odd. One of which, instead of providing a reference to a New Zealand Gov., Tax site, Renee sent me a link to deloitte.com , which was dated 2016.

If this tax is 100% legit, why send me a link to deloitte.com, which didn't actually state TAX had to be paid, all it spoke about was that NZ consumption TAX, may, at some point in the future, be mandatory.

FYI...I'm on the Wagering Model. I'm paid 1.3% on the total wagering per month.

Things is though, RA are taking 5.25% tax from me, claiming, I'm being paid 35%.

Yeah... I'm paid 35% of 3.71% (theoretical slots RTP).

Personally I shouldn't have to pay tax, given I'm not on Revenue Share.

However, to be fair... I'm happy paying 1.3% of their 15% total. But no no no, Renee et al will not have a bar of that. Instead, I'm being hammered for 5.25% tax.

Reiterating I earn a MAX of 1.3% BUT get charged 5.25% tax... If my players win, it's ok, but if they lose, I not only get slogged for 5.25% on their deposits BUT also their bonuses too.

Maybe I need to throw DodgyOnlineCasinoHistory.net back up (stilly have the domain and the DB).


Edit:

References...

rewardsaffiliates.com/program/commission.aspx (Wagershare)



35% of 3.71, is not a TRUE 35%. It's only 1.3%... Lets not BS each other here with semantics!

The table below displays the theoretical margin for each casino style game. The payout is the % paid to an affiliate who is on the Wagershare model.

Hence if all your tagged players play slots, then your Wagershare percentage is paid at 1.3%. Semantically speaking (aka hoodwinking) your paid 35% of 3.71% = 1.3%

​

	Margin (theoretical)	Payout
Table Non Blackjack	2.57%	0.90%
Slots	3.71%	1.30%
Video Poker	0.94%	0.33%
Blackjack	1.26%	0.44%

NB - sometime between December 2011 and Jan 2012 RA added the following:

How commission is calculated:
Payout is calculated at 35% of margin - (35% of applicable gaming taxes and fees):

More BS... I'm not paid 35%. I'm paid at MAX 1.3%.

Hence I should ONLY be paying 1.3% of the 15% total tax. Which is 0.195% of the 15% tax rate.

That's $0.195 of every $100 taxable.

NOT $5.25 of every $100 taxable, as I'm being stung for now.

TBH I find it very, very odd, that this tax only seems to have come about, since CR had to have a new MGS casino built for the German Market. A cynical person may wonder IF this tax really is legit or... Is it just money being garnished from affiliates to pay for this NEW casino build.

My accountant finds all this very bizarre too.

However, as he said, all will be revealed (truth or lies) when he requires a bona fide TAX invoice in July 2021, as he will be claiming these NZ taxes as a business expenditure deduction. He informed me, he will need a tax invoice on ALL NZ tax supposedly garnished from my monthly earnings. As he will use this as a business expense, and will need proof of tax paid by RA/CR et al.

BTW...
My total sub earnings this month (March 2021) before tax = $5,254.47

Tax garnished at 5.25% = $3,042.90

My earnings =$2,211.57 (wagershare payment 1.3%)



TBH I really dislike airing my issues on public forums. However, trying to deal with issues in a professional business manner, as any self employed person would, with a mainstream business, this action is sadly, almost always, a hopeless case of wading thru semantics, and BS, with igaming affiliate programs.

How hard is it to see that I DO NOT EARN 35%...???!!! I only earn (max) 1.3%.

Thank you. What Microgaming casinos do you feel are solid?

 

[AussieDave]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions about any affiliate program, or for that matter, anything of their own individual likes/dislikes. However, when facts are presented, and those "facts" point to questionable ethics, then opinions, are all moot points.

 

[AussieDave]

Thank you. What Microgaming casinos do you feel are solid?

12+ years ago there were a handful of MGS casino programs who were solid.

---------
Rewards Affiliates pay on or before the 7'th of each month. Aside from a processor screw up in 2020, where my wire didn't arrive, and it took, 3 weeks to be paid, I have never had an issue with payments.

If your referred players don't signup to any other CR casino(s) to what your promoting, then you'll always be paid what you've earned. The BIG problem however comes because after 30 days, your cookie expires. And, ALL CR players must continually visit/log into the CasinoRewards.com site, to redeem their bonuses and loyalty points. That where the problem starts.

The CR website actively uses aggressive marketing, and encourages all players to signup at their other casinos etc. If one of your referred player's tags is not active (cookie has expired), and they join another CR casino (via the casinorewards.com site) then you lose that player.

FYI...That player will be tagged as a TYPE_IN to CasinoRewards, and not as your tagged player.

Back in the day, when I was HUGE in Australia, I was sending RA heaps of signups/players. However, I could never figure out, unlike other MGS casinos, why my referred RA players were going MIA all the time. It like an endless black-hole to nowhere. This also included players at casino which CR had bought. One CR/RA got their hands on these players, my earning simple vanished, overnight.

It wasn't until the GPWA thread about unethical cross marketing, that the penny dropped. By that stage it was too late. Lit5erally 1000's of mt tagged players had been cross marketed to, without my affID tag.
---------

Unfortunately, with the way things have gone, that list of independent operators, has dwindled, to a point where, all the stand alone Microgaming casinos are owned by only a few operators, now.

EG - Fortune Lounge Group (aka Digimedia); Referback which is now Buffalo Partners (aka Wagershare Group); All Jackpots Group; Red Returns, Betway Group etc., etc... Most of those casinos and aff programs have now been absorbed into Buffalo Partners.

FYI - all of those aff programs/casinos/poker rooms etc., were and are still owned by the Moshal's. Who for anyone who doesn't know... The Moshal's commenced the brand Microgaming in 1994. And, they still own a 51% stake in Microgaming (a privately owned company located on the Isle of Man).

32Red affiliate program (once outstanding) now a shithole: thanks to the crooks at Kindred. Go Wild was also brilliant back then, but after their offices got raided by the police, they never really came good again. They stayed mediocre, and then finally shafted their affiliates and closed the doors.

I've always promoted MGS casinos. They've always been my largest market, and success.

Though, reiterating, the way things have gone with browser based casinos offering literally 1000's of slots, and in some instances almost instant withdrawals 24/7 365 days a year, these MGS casino seem like they are struggling to keep up. Sure they will always have their loyal players. But, I'm sure at some point, in the not too distant future, these stand along MGS casinos will be extinct... just like Dinosaurs.

 

[Alchemist]

Nice info you got there, thanks @AussieDave. One thing they still beat up everyone around is the loyalty points, correct. Most casinos will have some terms on these or other bonuses. CR brands dont have any max bet or max cashout, which is one of the most important things. As a player too, i find this to be very rare, sometimes i can make out from loyalty points over 2000 EUR which is great.

 

[AussieDave]

Nice info you got there, thanks @AussieDaveCR brands dont have any max bet or max cashout.

Maybe your a VIP player. If that's the case, then your bound to different rules.

 

[Alchemist]

Actually i think i'm not considered that much as a big VIP player but i'm not sure 100%. Will have to check this out.

 

[CasinoQueen]

I'm sure you've heard the expression "you can't put an old head on young shoulders."

When I started out as a casino affiliate in Feb 2000, it was easy pickings. However, there were still lots of pitfalls. What I'm trying to say is... Living the life of a casino affiliate, and learning to embracing A,B, or C, whilst avoiding X, Y, or Z... comes at the price of an education.

It takes approx 10,000 hours to competent in anything, be this affiliate marketing, playing guitar, etc., etc.

Hence, learn the craft, and put what you learn to good practice

I'm sure you've heard the expression "you can't put an old head on young shoulders."

When I started out as a casino affiliate in Feb 2000, it was easy pickings. However, there were still lots of pitfalls. What I'm trying to say is... Living the life of a casino affiliate, and learning to embracing A,B, or C, whilst avoiding X, Y, or Z... comes at the price of an education.

It takes approx 10,000 hours to competent in anything, be this affiliate marketing, playing guitar, etc., etc.

Hence, learn the craft, and put what you learn to good practice

When a player gets untagged his wagers goes away too. Also his wagers from the past, all his data. Happened to one of my friends in Wager Share model. But in most cases there is a reason for untagging (fraud, money laundering etc). My friend noticed, contacted Renee and she even agreed to pay all the past commissions from this player but she untagged him.

The case here is different though. The amount can go away or stay as it is. There isn't something in the middle.

I promote CR for 3-4 years and never had any problems with them, they were very good. I can say they are one of the best out there.

@CasinoQueen to answer your question if that's common, yes it is. High Rollers were manually removed by 3 different programs i work for. Nope, CR is not one of

There's a few things here that do not makes sense...

If your on the Wagering Model, then, I can not understand, how, your players wagering drops from $14,200 to $1,500???!!!

As far as the 50% in the first month, that IS only applicable to new affiliates who signup on the Revshare Model. It's not applicable for the Wagering Model.

Not having access to your data (take a screen cap of this data and post here)... I'm unable to really make head nor tail of what has happened.

However, the commission payment figure drops, these seem like TAX being deducted. I can not see any other reason for these reductions, other than TAX being garnished. Does Canada have a consumption tax?

Weird, I communicate with CR via skype on day to day bases. Their skypes are in your affiliate backend, weird if you are in such a hurry and didn't get a response you didn't go for the skype contact right away or even better their phone numbers.

I'm aware of their past problems, but at the same time I haven't had issues with them since day 1, which of course does not make them flawless. I'm not here to belittle anyone's issues with CR. However are one of the companies that has no admin tax, so if they are in the business of screwing you, why not hit you there as well. Easy money for them.

Did you really have in mind fixing this issue? From the title of this thread, these are some pretty serious accusations, boldly stated without having a grasp of what even a high roller is.... Usually people looking for resolution state their issue with "Hey I have a problem can I get some assistance" , without a judgement and a verdict.

Makes me sad that on the internet everyone is guilty until proven otherwise, and the one who said something first has the edge. And then the crowd jumps in and continues the bashing without verifying the story. Plenty of sexual harassment cases that went sour for the accuser.

So following the same logic of 'Why should we trust program XYZ" comes "Why should we trust Affiliate XYZ that claims ABC? Is there anything you omit from your story? Obviously we can't look into your backend, your player's details, what payment methods they've used and if you are indeed are connected to them

Even worse the affiliate program representative, can't come here and list those for us either as they'd be exposing your private information. Basically with this thread you hold all the cards, where we can't verify what you say is true, but yet everything you say must be true from the responses I see here. Further more the claim is everything the risk management has told you is a lie.

If everything what you say is true and this was me, I'd give the program a written consensus to link everything from their end that would prove my innocence. If this is the full story, I apologize I may come off a little rude, but in 12 years, from everything I've seen and read, there's always something that affiliates leave out to present themselves as the victim.

 

[CasinoQueen]

Weird, I communicate with CR via skype on day to day bases. Their skypes are in your affiliate backend, weird if you are in such a hurry and didn't get a response you didn't go for the skype contact right away or even better their phone numbers.

I'm aware of their past problems, but at the same time I haven't had issues with them since day 1, which of course does not make them flawless. I'm not here to belittle anyone's issues with CR. However are one of the companies that has no admin tax, so if they are in the business of screwing you, why not hit you there as well. Easy money for them.

Did you really have in mind fixing this issue? From the title of this thread, these are some pretty serious accusations, boldly stated without having a grasp of what even a high roller is.... Usually people looking for resolution state their issue with "Hey I have a problem can I get some assistance" , without a judgement and a verdict.

Makes me sad that on the internet everyone is guilty until proven otherwise, and the one who said something first has the edge. And then the crowd jumps in and continues the bashing without verifying the story. Plenty of sexual harassment cases that went sour for the accuser.

So following the same logic of 'Why should we trust program XYZ" comes "Why should we trust Affiliate XYZ that claims ABC? Is there anything you omit from your story? Obviously we can't look into your backend, your player's details, what payment methods they've used and if you are indeed are connected to them

Even worse the affiliate program representative, can't come here and list those for us either as they'd be exposing your private information. Basically with this thread you hold all the cards, where we can't verify what you say is true, but yet everything you say must be true from the responses I see here. Further more the claim is everything the risk management has told you is

If everything what you say is true and this was me, I'd give the program a written consensus to link everything from their end that would prove my innocence. If this is the full story, I apologize I may come off a little rude, but in 12 years, from everything I've seen and read, there's always something that affiliates leave out to present themselves as the victim.

I have zero issues posting the unread and unresponded to Skype and emails and will do so. Full transparency here, it is RA who hasn't responded or attempted to clarify anything.

Also, I have absolutely every intention of getting it resolved, I've been trying. If it was a mistake, oversight, etc on that end, just say so or offer some kind of an explanation. The complete vague accusation they gave with absolutely zero evidence or explanation of how such a conclusion was reached is my issue. They have essentially ACCUSED ME OF FRAUD AND DECEIPT WITH ZERO EXPLANATION and confiscated commissions! was it thousands? No. Not that it matters because It is the principle.

Furthermore, after follow-up emails, I have yet to hear back from ANYONE although was told at the end of the last correspondence to let her know if I had questions or concerns. I replied twice afterward within the span of half-hour of receiving the email and have been ignored since. The reason I came to this forum was to find out my options and if this is standard practice and something I should come to expect. How else would I know? Again, I have nothing to compare it to as it was to be my first payment through them.

I don't think you are coming off as rude cause you are completely correct! You don't know anything about me and I could be saying anything. However, I will post what I have regarding communication and what Aussie Dave asked for so it can be seen. If it is a mistake I have made or I'm not understanding something correctly, I'm all ears and open to listen.

Lastly, perhaps I am not privy to what is considered a "whale" as it was my own assumption as it was the largest player I had at the moment. You have a valid point with the title and should a situation arise In the future with a program perhaps it could be phrased better. If and when this gets cleared up I will publicly state so and rectify that too so people can openly see the willingness of the company to resolve it. I just haven't seen it this far, at all. They made a pretty serious accusation and assumption without any explanation or follow-up and confiscated commissions. I don't think any person on this forum would appreciate the manner in which it has been handled.

I will be back shortly with some screenshots!

 

[CasinoQueen]

Nice info you got there, thanks @AussieDave. One thing they still beat up everyone around is the loyalty points, correct. Most casinos will have some terms on these or other bonuses. CR brands dont have any max bet or max cashout, which is one of the most important things. As a player too, i find this to be very rare, sometimes i can make out from loyalty points over 2000 EUR which is great.

There's a few things here that do not makes sense...

If your on the Wagering Model, then, I can not understand, how, your players wagering drops from $14,200 to $1,500???!!!

As far as the 50% in the first month, that IS only applicable to new affiliates who signup on the Revshare Model. It's not applicable for the Wagering Model.

Not having access to your data (take a screen cap of this data and post here)... I'm unable to really make head nor tail of what has happened.

However, the commission payment figure drops, these seem like TAX being deducted. I can not see any other reason for these reductions, other than TAX being garnished. Does Canada have a consumption

I am going to upload screenshots and show you what happened! Be back shortly!

 

[falseadoom]

They have essentially ACCUSED ME OF FRAUD AND DECEIPT WITH ZERO EXPLANATION and confiscated commissions!

Why would they give you explanation?

I have zero issues posting the unread and unresponded to Skype and emails and will do so. Full transparency here, it is RA who hasn't responded or attempted to clarify anything.

Also, I have absolutely every intention of getting it resolved, I've been trying. If it was a mistake, oversight, etc on that end, just say so or offer some kind of an explanation. The complete vague accusation they gave with absolutely zero evidence or explanation of how such a conclusion was reached is my issue. They have essentially ACCUSED ME OF FRAUD AND DECEIPT WITH ZERO EXPLANATION and confiscated commissions! was it thousands? No. Not that it matters because It is the principle.

Furthermore, after follow-up emails, I have yet to hear back from ANYONE although was told at the end of the last correspondence to let her know if I had questions or concerns. I replied twice afterward within the span of half-hour of receiving the email and have been ignored since. The reason I came to this forum was to find out my options and if this is standard practice and something I should come to expect. How else would I know? Again, I have nothing to compare it to as it was to be my first payment through them.

I don't think you are coming off as rude cause you are completely correct! You don't know anything about me and I could be saying anything. However, I will post what I have regarding communication and what Aussie Dave asked for so it can be seen. If it is a mistake I have made or I'm not understanding something correctly, I'm all ears and open to listen.

Lastly, perhaps I am not privy to what is considered a "whale" as it was my own assumption as it was the largest player I had at the moment. You have a valid point with the title and should a situation arise In the future with a program perhaps it could be phrased better. If and when this gets cleared up I will publicly state so and rectify that too so people can openly see the willingness of the company to resolve it. I just haven't seen it this far, at all. They made a pretty serious accusation and assumption without any explanation or follow-up and confiscated commissions. I don't think any person on this forum would appreciate the manner in which it has been handled.

I will be back shortly with some screenshots!

If there is a fraud player, of course the player would be removed and commissions forfeited. Casino groups are not going to explain their procedures on how they determine a fraud player.

There has been affiliates that would sign up for cpa deals to receive 200 per player, have some family & friends sign up and deposit 5 - 20 dollars. Then the affiliate would complain that the programs were not paying out. Well of course not.

Rewards is a solid program. To be honest you are the first affiliate I have seen complaining about this type of issue with Rewards.
I am also on wagershare.

 

[AussieDave]

Weird, I communicate with CR via skype on day to day bases.

Don't you mean RA?

Unless you do mean CR. In that case, you'd be a player, and that input, has no bearing, here.

I'll be the 1'st to agree, we, here at AGD (and other forums), get more than our fair share of new bogus members, venting 'stories', which, are both 1-sided, and in some cases, 100% outright lies.

However, I don't believe this is the case here. I contacted the OP via private message. Obviously I'm not at liberty to reveal that confidential discussion, but what was said, appears to be genuine.

FYI...For literally years before the RA/CR 2011 GPWA cross-marketing thread reared its head, I was personally communicating with RA (Renee), not only in email, and in gambling forums, but also on a regular basis (every couple of weeks) via phone calls. We're both Aussies

These comms came to an abrupt halt, shortly after I started asking curly questions about MY referred tagged players, in connection to the "dropped" cookies/affID's, and the unethical cross marketing.

This was not fake-news!

Instead, hard working, loyal RA affiliates (including myself), discovered their tagged players were very aggressively being cross promoted to, with all CR casinos etc., etc. Worse, it seemed in some instances, players were being referred to a CR casino, only to be hoodwinked to another CR casino, even before this tagged player made a deposit at the originally referred (tagged) casino.

Conducting this type of crooked switch-a-roo, meant, RA/CR got free players. Unless the tagged player deposited at the casino the affiliate signed them up to, CR/RA pocketed ALL the profits.

To coin a phrase. It must have been akin to... "shooting fish in a barrel."

FFS... the majority of private GPWA members VOTED to kick RA as a GPWA sponsor. Why? Because it was clear to these members, they'd been conned, scammed, and worse, their trust abused.

Yet... here is RA/CR accusing the OP of fraud and deceit... lo-fucking-l!!!

Lets get back to the comms issue.... When I was informed by RA that NZ tax was going to be garnished from my commission earnings (August 2020) @ a rate of 35% of the 15% tax, I questioned the 35% (5.25%)... I was told, that's what I earn.

Ummmm no... What I earn is 35% of 3.71% (theoretical slots RTP) = 1.3% wagershare.

I argued (in email with Renee) that I don't earn a True 35% paid to my pocket. Instead, I only paid 1.3% on slots wagering, and far less on other games.

My partner, she's a bank manager. She could see this plain as day. My accountant, hell... he's ex ATO (Australia Tax Office), he too could see that I only earn 1.3% max.

However with all that Renee kept saying I earned 35%.

Fine, so I wrote another email stating... If you are that sure that I'm paid 35% on the wagering model, then, as of now, RA/CR owe me a crapload in back commission payments. That was sent sometime in August/Sept 2020. Not a single reply. Nothing, not a peep!

I'm being hammered for 5.25% tax, when, and I do not earn 35%. I'm paid 1.3% max. Therefore my NZ tax contributions should be no greater than, 0.195% of the total 15% NZ TAX.

Reiterating...

• My partner she's a bank manager (20 years).
• My accountant (ex ATO) qualified since 1983.

These people work with both large sums of cash, and financial figures all day. They are not fools. They all agree my NZ tax contributions, should be garnished at no greater than 0.195%.

Yet with ALL this factual proof, RA refuse to respond, refuse to listen. And continue to rob me, by taking 5.25% tax, stating, I earn a TRUE 35% wagershare.

Worse, when I refuse to accept this Bullshit. Rewards Affiliates and the AM's ignore me. They refuse to be accountable for this obvious, and very clear, screw up. Instead, they just ignore me!

Imagine this happening in mainstream business, today.

Imagine a B2B relationship, where, one party proves the other is, garnishing too much tax. Any ethical company would apologize profusely, and return, with post haste, the monies taken by mistake.

Well, not here at RA/CR... No!
Dealing with them on issues such as these above, reminds me of the X-Files famous quote: Deny Everything!

FYI...The CasinoRewards.com site is, setup in such a way, that every single player (affiliate tagged or not) MUST log into the CR site, to redeem their loyalty points etc.

"shooting fish in a barrel"... That hasn't changed. That's exactly how it is.

For the record, I still make decent income at RA. I'm well aware they STILL aggressively cross market to tagged players.

However, the number of players I send to RA/CR these days, is not much.

Maybe I'm a fool, but I didn't mind the idea that they (RA/CR) were maybe gaining a free player here or there, because I thought doing so would at least ensure I received my monthly commission payments.

However now, and being charged 4x+ what I'm supposed to be paying in NZ Tax, I'm again feeling like I did way back in 2011, when, the GPWA unethical cross marketing came to light.

Here I am getting fucked over by RA/CR, AGAIN!!!

Why would they give you explanation?

Sorry for stepping out there for a moment, I just felt compelled to check, if, we were still at AGD, and not some parallel universe, posting to AGD in Oingo Boingo Land.

I don't know what business experience you have (from the above response, it seems not much)... but when it comes to mainstream B2B or B2C, I can assure you, companies who embrace 100% transparency and an ethical, business driven ethos, would not, in their wildest dreams, reply to a business partner in the manner that RA/CR have. (lol - more to the point, reply, name call, then ignore)

Why do the majority of igaming affiliate programs et al, THINK, it's OK to behave like this???!!!

Here's one thought... It's affiliate's like yourself, and others, who allow this BS to continue, unchallenged.

@falseadoom - so your stating that RA/CR are not accountable for their actions. They, like other igaming operators, can do as they please? Can rob people? Can accuse people of being deceitful and a fraud, but not provide any proof to back up these statements???

Stockholm Syndrome is alive and well in the online igaming industry, that's for sure!

P.S. @falseadoom - the OP is on wagershare, not CPA

 

[AussieDave]

NB - I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. However here is proof I'm getting royally shafted by RA/CR for their NZ tax grab... Reiterating... I do not earn a TRUE 35% on wagershare.

I earn 1.3% max on slot wagering.

This figure is calculated from: 35% of 3.71% (theoretical slots RTP).

Therefore I should only be paying, 1.3% of the total 15% NZ tax. Which amounts to: 0.195%

Rewards refuse to budge, even though they are wrong. The message, this send, is frightening.

I actually make less that $0, I lose - (negative) US$64.59. Yet rewards still have made money here.
Not only scammed me with bogus tax %, but also profit, yet leave me with less than nothing

On the grounds that RA/CR believe they are above accountability, and do not have to provide full disclosure. The account by the OP, fits with RA's/CR's Modus Operandi. It's exactly how they behave when they don't want to answer questions...Or they excuses like: talk to the hand responses.

 

[falseadoom]

Don't you mean RA?

Unless you do mean CR. In that case, you'd be a player, and that input, has no bearing, here.

I'll be the 1'st to agree, we, here at AGD (and other forums), get more than our fair share of new bogus members, venting 'stories', which, are both 1-sided, and in some cases, 100% outright lies.

However, I don't believe this is the case here. I contacted the OP via private message. Obviously I'm not at liberty to reveal that confidential discussion, but what was said, appears to be genuine.

FYI...For literally years before the RA/CR 2011 GPWA cross-marketing thread reared its head, I was personally communicating with RA (Renee), not only in email, and in gambling forums, but also on a regular basis (every couple of weeks) via phone calls. We're both Aussies

These comms came to an abrupt halt, shortly after I started asking curly questions about MY referred tagged players, in connection to the "dropped" cookies/affID's, and the unethical cross marketing.

This was not fake-news!

Instead, hard working, loyal RA affiliates (including myself), discovered their tagged players were very aggressively being cross promoted to, with all CR casinos etc., etc. Worse, it seemed in some instances, players were being referred to a CR casino, only to be hoodwinked to another CR casino, even before this tagged player made a deposit at the originally referred (tagged) casino.

Conducting this type of crooked switch-a-roo, meant, RA/CR got free players. Unless the tagged player deposited at the casino the affiliate signed them up to, CR/RA pocketed ALL the profits.

To coin a phrase. It must have been akin to... "shooting fish in a barrel."

FFS... the majority of private GPWA members VOTED to kick RA as a GPWA sponsor. Why? Because it was clear to these members, they'd been conned, scammed, and worse, their trust abused.

Yet... here is RA/CR accusing the OP of fraud and deceit... lo-fucking-l!!!

Lets get back to the comms issue.... When I was informed by RA that NZ tax was going to be garnished from my commission earnings (August 2020) @ a rate of 35% of the 15% tax, I questioned the 35% (5.25%)... I was told, that's what I earn.

Ummmm no... What I earn is 35% of 3.71% (theoretical slots RTP) = 1.3% wagershare.

I argued (in email with Renee) that I don't earn a True 35% paid to my pocket. Instead, I only paid 1.3% on slots wagering, and far less on other games.

My partner, she's a bank manager. She could see this plain as day. My accountant, hell... he's ex ATO (Australia Tax Office), he too could see that I only earn 1.3% max.

However with all that Renee kept saying I earned 35%.

Fine, so I wrote another email stating... If you are that sure that I'm paid 35% on the wagering model, then, as of now, RA/CR owe me a crapload in back commission payments. That was sent sometime in August/Sept 2020. Not a single reply. Nothing, not a peep!

I'm being hammered for 5.25% tax, when, and I do not earn 35%. I'm paid 1.3% max. Therefore my NZ tax contributions should be no greater than, 0.195% of the total 15% NZ TAX.

Reiterating...

• My partner she's a bank manager (20 years).
• My accountant (ex ATO) qualified since 1983.

These people work with both large sums of cash, and financial figures all day. They are not fools. They all agree my NZ tax contributions, should be garnished at no greater than 0.195%.

Yet with ALL this factual proof, RA refuse to respond, refuse to listen. And continue to rob me, by taking 5.25% tax, stating, I earn a TRUE 35% wagershare.

Worse, when I refuse to accept this Bullshit. Rewards Affiliates and the AM's ignore me. They refuse to be accountable for this obvious, and very clear, screw up. Instead, they just ignore me!

Imagine this happening in mainstream business, today.

Imagine a B2B relationship, where, one party proves the other is, garnishing too much tax. Any ethical company would apologize profusely, and return, with post haste, the monies taken by mistake.

Well, not here at RA/CR... No!
Dealing with them on issues such as these above, reminds me of the X-Files famous quote: Deny Everything!

FYI...The CasinoRewards.com site is, setup in such a way, that every single player (affiliate tagged or not) MUST log into the CR site, to redeem their loyalty points etc.

"shooting fish in a barrel"... That hasn't changed. That's exactly how it is.

For the record, I still make decent income at RA. I'm well aware they STILL aggressively cross market to tagged players.

However, the number of players I send to RA/CR these days, is not much.

Maybe I'm a fool, but I didn't mind the idea that they (RA/CR) were maybe gaining a free player here or there, because I thought doing so would at least ensure I received my monthly commission payments.

However now, and being charged 4x+ what I'm supposed to be paying in NZ Tax, I'm again feeling like I did way back in 2011, when, the GPWA unethical cross marketing came to light.

Here I am getting fucked over by RA/CR, AGAIN!!!



Sorry for stepping out there for a moment, I just felt compelled to check, if, we were still at AGD, and not some parallel universe, posting to AGD in Oingo Boingo Land.

I don't know what business experience you have (from the above response, it seems not much)... but when it comes to mainstream B2B or B2C, I can assure you, companies who embrace 100% transparency and an ethical, business driven ethos, would not, in their wildest dreams, reply to a business partner in the manner that RA/CR have. (lol - more to the point, reply, name call, then ignore)

Why do the majority of igaming affiliate programs et al, THINK, it's OK to behave like this???!!!

Here's one thought... It's affiliate's like yourself, and others, who allow this BS to continue, unchallenged.

@falseadoom - so your stating that RA/CR are not accountable for their actions. They, like other igaming operators, can do as they please? Can rob people? Can accuse people of being deceitful and a fraud, but not provide any proof to back up these statements???

Stockholm Syndrome is alive and well in the online igaming industry, that's for sure!

P.S. @falseadoom - the OP is on wagershare, not CPA

Yes I know she is on wagershare.. That was just example of other new affiliates in the past, who have came and complained about programs.

AussieDave you are on this big rant about taxes but that is not the subject here. If you don't like how the taxes are done on wagershare, then maybe you should ask to be switched to revshare.

 

[Tupee]

"I never heard of them being big cheaters"...
Obviously, you never read the GPWA thread on their unethical cross marketing. As the saying goes...
If a program has no qualms screwing their affiliates, then they'll have no issue screwing their players.

For the record, both Renee and Celia are great AM's. Far better than the majority out there. However, their alliances are with RA/CR. They just follow orders, as does any employee, of any company.

Hence, my beef is not with Renee or Celia.

Instead, my beef is with the company (RA/CR), and the upper echelon at RA/CR who call ALL these dodgy shots. I've bit my lip many times since all these shenanigans, started, again, and said nothing. BUT there's a point, where, knowing your getting shafted, and still not saying anything grinds at you each and every day.

I'm sick of being fucked over in this industry.

Hence, I've now broken my silence.

I see now what's the problem with them, but I am not surprised at all, if I think of the tricks in their bonus system on the player side.
Maybe Renéne is better than the industry standard, but for me there is already a warning sign about her due to my experiences as a player.

What the industry is doing in general irritates me as well recently.