Vegas Crest - affiliates please check YOUR stats! (Resolved)

[KasinoKing]

Sorry for the very long post – but if you’re working with these guys it is definitely worth reading!

For several months I've felt something was off with these guys, as my players have been depositing $1,000's, cashing out $0, and yet the NGR was negative for the last 5 months.

At first I thought it was because Vista deduct the huge bonuses given from the GGR - but that's not the reason. It's much worse than that.
Players' funds are going missing (or at least, not accounted for in the stats)

Below is a summarised view of all my 2023 stats up to October. The first 3 months look OK-ish, but it starts to get strange from April onward and then much worse from June. The HIGHLIGHTED columns are the key ones to look at.

The "Start With", GGR, "Finish With" and "Player Balance" are columns I added myself to calculate figures that are not on the standard reports. All the other figures ARE from the back-end reporting.

Let's take July as an example:
Players deposit $2,663 and get $5,811 in bonuses.
So they start play with $8,474
The GGR (Bets placed less Winnings) = $3,379
So at the end of the month the players' balances should total $5,095
But there are no withdrawals - just more deposits the next month.
So where did that $5,095 go???

Yes, it could have still been sitting in the players' accounts and be carried over to the next month - but if that were the case, why would they carry on depositing more month after month?
And if they did carry it over, the next month's starting figure would be even bigger which in turn would increase the finishing figure.

So in my case, $24,000 of player's funds have gone "missing" from March to October and as a result, most of those months have shown a negative NGR.


There is definitely something wrong somewhere. I’m trying to figure out what it is.
The bottom line is what I said in a different thread:

For the 5 months from June to October, the figures show nearly $10K going in to the casino, NOTHING coming out AND also a Negative Gaming Revenue of over $8K
So those numbers indicate the casino has basically lost over $18,000 in 5 months, even though players are not winning and cashing out.
Where is that $18K?

Am I right - or is it me who is missing something?


Finally, the NGR calculation stated in their T&Cs is pretty standard:
Net Revenue = Wagers - Winnings - Bonuses - 15% Admin - Fraud & C/B costs
The NGR figures for every month in 2023 are correct to this formula.
But I have checked my reports for the whole of 2022 – and in NO month does the NGR stated match the results of that formula.
Some are close – but also some are WAY out.
(FYI: The total NGR on my reports for all of 2022 worked out at about HALF of what I calculated using their formula).
So it looked like something changed from January 2023.


If you work with these guys, please check YOUR stats after April 2023 & let me know if you see the same discrepancies.
Cheers,
KK

 

[Symmetry]

We don't work with them but it's pretty clear that something is wrong. Did you bring the issue to them and if so, what was their response?

 

[KasinoKing]

We don't work with them but it's pretty clear that something is wrong. Did you bring the issue to them and if so, what was their response?

Yes.
Answer: "Nothing can be wrong with the stats automatically generated by the system"

But I was only talking to my AM who, with all due respect, probably does not have a clue what I am talking about!

If there is "something dodgy" going on, then the "powers that be" are unlikely to tell their "minions", let alone their affiliates!

KK

 

[Symmetry]

That is an answer i got as well from other partners in the past when weird things happened with my stats as well. In my experience, stats can be wrong like really often. Actually i have more than 3 cases open as we speak and AM's are "trying" to understand what i'm telling them..... So the answer is showing some unwillingness from your AM to look into the case....

 

[KasinoKing]

Am I seriously the ONLY affiliate on this forum who is working with Vista?

If there is anyone else - you REALLY need to check your stats.

So November has now been and gone - and the pattern was still the same: Lots of deposits, no withdrawals and yet NGR negative again at the end of the month.

Totals for the whole of 2023 so far:
Deposits: $18,429
Withdrawals: $3,065
Net Input: $15,364 (Deposits less Withdrawals)
N.G.R.: -$9,920

So the casino has received $15K net from players and yet has also apparently lost nearly $10K.
For the whole year, I have earned about $1,000 in commission (before the stats went weird).
That means $24,000 is unaccounted for. Where are those funds???

KK

 

[euromill]

Mate - my conversion went to hell with them about 2 years ago so I haven't had earnings like this to compare - but I see we are earning the same amount - IE nothing. Change them out with another US-facing brand. I know that's easier said than done.

 

[bonustreak]

We are going to pull them, they are a waste of space

 

[AussieDave]

@KasinoKing - your no one's fool, you know something stinks in Tullarook, here. Sorry your getting shafted but that's what's happening, your being screwed.

 

[Jops]

This is the thing, don’t trust a think your aff managers says when you question a propgram because they probably have no clue.

I see the same shit with MyStake, Goldenbet and Metaspin. Numbers don’t make sense at all. Avoid!

 

[AussieDave]

don’t trust a think your aff managers says when you question a propgram because they probably have no clue.

They're either clueless or their part of the scam.

Unfortunately the industry in most part these days, is dog-eat-dog. Some may say it's always been harsh. Maybe, but back then, you mostly dealt with AM's who were not clueless, and who had ethics.

Lets take Martin Beacon... He walked from AE when they screwed affiliates. He's the sort of AM we used to deal with, not the shit that's common today... just sayin

 

[KasinoKing]

For all those following this thread, I can report to both of you...

The mystery of the "off stats" has been solved - but only when Max from Casinomeister contacted them on my behalf and someone at Vista finally had a proper look, a full month after I reported the issue

Vista changed something in their back end in March, and for some unexplained reason, player withdrawals were not shown on my reports. And they were very considerable.
At first I thought this was a bit "dodgy", but looking right back to the beginning of 2021, there were large withdrawals just about every month up to March 2023.
So it does make sense and does explain all the discrepancies I uncovered.

KK

 

[euromill]

Glad to hear its resolved -

 

[Seo_Team]

They're either clueless or their part of the scam.

Unfortunately the industry in most part these days, is dog-eat-dog. Some may say it's always been harsh. Maybe, but back then, you mostly dealt with AM's who were not clueless, and who had ethics.

Lets take Martin Beacon... He walked from AE when they screwed affiliates. He's the sort of AM we used to deal with, not the shit that's common today... just sayin

At the moment there are many such cases with managers, and we also encountered them

 

[Seo_Team]

For all those following this thread, I can report to both of you...

The mystery of the "off stats" has been solved - but only when Max from Casinomeister contacted them on my behalf and someone at Vista finally had a proper look, a full month after I reported the issue

Vista changed something in their back end in March, and for some unexplained reason, player withdrawals were not shown on my reports. And they were very considerable.
At first I thought this was a bit "dodgy", but looking right back to the beginning of 2021, there were large withdrawals just about every month up to March 2023.
So it does make sense and does explain all the discrepancies I uncovered.

KK

We also had our real earnings indicators turned off

 

[Kadabra]

this is a minor issue, compared to their total luck of funds. this program is dead. time to move on.