Will you trust CAP's audits?

[Pokerkeep]

If the audits are conducted by a team of independent, unbiased players then I would be interested in the results.
If CAP is in charge, my fear is that the audits will be anything but unbiased.

I am much more inclined to trust Casino City/APCW to present a fair and truthful result. J Todd has proven his integrity over the past couple of years.

 

[GamTrak]

Since I'm the Team Leader on the Audits, I can assure everyone that the results will be exactly what they are and not take any of the comments personally.

 

[Guard Dog]

Welcome, Gamtrak I think everyone in the industry wants to make sure these type of things are done with honesty and Integrity (no pun intended, there)

It is information that small affiliates who do not have the budget for this type of stuff may use to base their decisions upon. We truly hope that they are done well and I expect that you will see to that

It looks like APCW will be moving forward with their audits as well, so I would imagine that in either case affiliate programs will have to either play nice or get lost.

Thanks again for posting and we all certainly hope that your audits are 'up to par'!

 

[pdjoe]

Since I'm the Team Leader on the Audits, I can assure everyone that the results will be exactly what they are and not take any of the comments personally.

Robin,

Help me understand this. You have had your own software ideas stolen from you from what I have read. If it was me I would be prety upset as I am sure you are? The hard work and efforts you put into it only to be copied.

I just don't get why you would be a team leader when you are aware that j.todd and the dog's ideas are being copied you would agree with it.

personally, i like you and have nothing but good to say about you. i'm sure you will do a great job with the audits but that should belong to j.todd and the terms left to the TOP DAWG.

Just my feelings Robin and nothing personal in any way.


Sorry if I am out of line in any way,

Joe

 

[bonustreak]

Joe I think she said she would understand if her software was taken and used and would not be ticked off, I think you confused that my friend.

Now as far as the audits go, I really don't think it matters much on who the team leader is, the fact of the matter is these audits are ran and tested by fellow affiliate/webmasters in the industry that is what will make it legit.

Now I like J as much as everyone else does and support him as well and I think that since GPWA is doing audits was well that is even better for all of us in the biz, these programs are going to be tag teamed up on and they better stop the shaving!

 

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

as to the stealing ideas / software stuff.

well you most know me and i think know that isn't my style.

but I am (sadly) aware of the fact that for instance I think i have a really good idea for the dating industry. but I can't patent an idea and surely as if the idea is a hit ... then it is guaranteed to be copied and likely done better and the only head start we'll have is the time we get when we hit the ground advertising and launch the site because as soon as the wrong eyes see it ... they'll copy and unlike myself and my partner ... they will have the funds to market the idea in a proper manner and when its all done not only will I be lucky if I was able to make SOME money off it ... but I'll also be lucky if I even get credit for the idea because when the big pockets start advertising my team will be a speck of dust in a windstorm.

that's the only consolation if the idea is a failure. You won't have been ripped-off by anybody/everybody with the ability to do a little online tasking.

It sucks. I don't condone it. I will and have before been a victim to it. But I don't see it changing. You can patent an ice cream maker but you can't patent the idea of freezing milk and adding flavorings.

I think you have to assume any idea be guarded for just the reasons I gave. the only head start will be the time you get online ahead of the next copycat getting their version online. And in most cases they will be better funded and quite possibly already have an advertising venue network set up and ready to expose your idea to the world as being their own.

personally I think there should be some kind of way to patent an idea. The first guy that figured out rolling the round object was much easier than pushing it home by going end over end ... was certainly worthy of being rich if you ask me ... but I doubt he even was given right of way at the local cave intersections.

 

[Guard Dog]

I believe if your site's purpose is protecting affiliates, copying them is really quite unethical. And that will be the last I will say on that issue.

 

[WagerX]

I think that the only real way anyone could 100% trust a "sponsored" audit is if the casino themselves were forced to integrate a third party verification system into their software platforms. The only way to ever possibly enforce this would be to have it as a requirement for obtaining a license from a gambling commission. I don't see that happening any time soon, if ever.

Until then, the only way to trust any audit is through the integrity of the person doing the audits. So, it's a matter of trust, ethics, and integrity.

my 2 cents.. lol

 

[Guard Dog]

I agree with you there. As I said before, if we knew exactly how the audits were being performed we may know how credible they are. BUT - it appears to me that they are handling it properly by allowing affiliates to run the audit tests, in essence.

What remains is how all that data will be pulled together to reflect the full audit. If that data is displayed in such a way that each auditor could verify their participation information, it would go a long way towards transparency. This also means that the STATS would have to be displayed as well to correlate that data.

A lot could go into this, so lets wait and see how they perform. We already know that the APCW audits go through a quality process. At least it is a good verification process to ensure that the programs are honest (OR NOT!).

 

[bonustreak]

That's right let the first audit get done and wait for the results before anyone makes assumptions fair enough I say.

 

[bb1webs]

Hi again all,

I disagree its a good thing that affs are doing the audits.

that was part of the reason I didn't want to be involved was because I felt I would taint the results ... but I also feel any aff ... especially those more well-known ... are bad choices to do the testing because if I was going to cheat affs then my casino would be set up to automatically show all action for that affiliate's location (in their account) because it is more likely if they are going to test .. it will be from either their home or some place close to their home.

but I'd also make certain all action always showed up for any last name that was in my list of affs because another likely way you'd get a test is having a relative test from whatever other state or country they are located.

So to me ... the best testing that will provide the most accurate results about what matters most to me ... (in this instance that being I get paid for what I earn) is somebody that is out of my area code, state, zip code, does not have the same last name and perhaps IP addresses but I don't know how they work so I am just saying if they are like zip codes or area codes then they too would be a give away.

take all that out of the picture because its a possible way to geo-target your shaving ... don't laugh .. where there's money involved I promise you there is no end to the extreme that people will go to get more and to do that more than once ... you gotta get away with it.

but take all that out and IMO you've got about the best testing possible with exception of being able to do that and have your tester playing at high roller stakes.

It takes a special kind of player though. there's enough to be done to confuse many players. making sure the cookies are cleared, the date and time is correct (so when you confront the program ... you can provide exact time and date for them to look and see why it didn't show up)

and that when comes time to cash out ... that they have been certain to meet play-thru requirements ... player must have an ewallet to which you also subscribe for easy transfer of money ... and you've got to be able to trust the player to actually raise some dust before bowing out with your money.

 

[bb1webs]

and its all the perfect job ... for an aff


but if you were trying to catch me ... I'd get away with it if you were using affs to check me out .. that had their last names on my list.

remember when we first started they just skimmed right off the top and sign ups didn't show.

Surely nobody believes they have not become much more sophisticated in their thievery now that so much more money is at stake ... or in most recentness of times ... now that times are hard and the money harder to get

in these times especially a program that cheats ... could not afford to be caught so yes I believe they will be very smart about it.

in fact I doubt location is as important any more ... I'd guess that the shaving game is now all about skimming off the cream that has proven to have staying power.

 

[Guard Dog]

Very good points bb1webs. I didn't think of all that, to be honest. We can only hope that the 20 affiliates are in different geo-locations and are of varying experience in the industry (from newbies to experienced).

Who knows how this will play out. I just want honesty in the industry...

 

[GamTrak]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the welcome. I've been a lurker for awhile and figured that this would be the best time to get active. hehe

I'm just now getting back to the thread so I"m going to address you first and then read the rest while I"m still in happy mode. LOL J/K.

I'm happy that APCW will continue doing audits as I in no way want to be the "bible" as it relates to who is shaving or not. The more the better so more power to them.

I'd be happy to go over the process with you to gain input that may have value and I do respect you and your opinion.

Robin

Welcome, Gamtrak I think everyone in the industry wants to make sure these type of things are done with honesty and Integrity (no pun intended, there)

It is information that small affiliates who do not have the budget for this type of stuff may use to base their decisions upon. We truly hope that they are done well and I expect that you will see to that

It looks like APCW will be moving forward with their audits as well, so I would imagine that in either case affiliate programs will have to either play nice or get lost.

Thanks again for posting and we all certainly hope that your audits are 'up to par'!

 

[GamTrak]

Hi Joe,

I hope you know that I have the utmost respect for you dude. You were one of my "mentors" that I look up to. Everyone can't agree on everything and I try to stay as low key as possible, but seem to always get involved some way or another. hehe

My software idea was not stolen per say. I was working with someone (you guys know him) and he did a version of it on his site. I've also seen other stuff out there that I consider a 'spin off' as no one was doing anything like it back in 2001 when I thought of my idea. There were a copy copy cat when I was on ezboard, but they quickly died.

A few months back some of the senior members at CAP discussed this and I was not alone in my view. I left the discussion feeling that it was NOT going to be an issue, but I'll have to go back and look at that thread to refresh my memory and get back to ya.

I don't feel that it's my place to dictate or judge the actions of others and I kind of get upset when I see it being done to others. I'm all for the Underdog as I've been attacked by the best, but still managed to survive!

It's like the free market! You either survive or you get a bailout! Those that survive on thier own will always be around. Those that get the fake bailout money will crumble.

Have a good one!

Robin

Robin,

Help me understand this. You have had your own software ideas stolen from you from what I have read. If it was me I would be prety upset as I am sure you are? The hard work and efforts you put into it only to be copied.

I just don't get why you would be a team leader when you are aware that j.todd and the dog's ideas are being copied you would agree with it.

personally, i like you and have nothing but good to say about you. i'm sure you will do a great job with the audits but that should belong to j.todd and the terms left to the TOP DAWG.

Just my feelings Robin and nothing personal in any way.


Sorry if I am out of line in any way,

Joe

 

[GamTrak]

That's right let the first audit get done and wait for the results before anyone makes assumptions fair enough I say.

Someone with a calm and rational thought!

Give it a chance and then once it's compiled, reviewed and posted feel free to pick it apart all you like.

Now I know how Obama must feel! hehe ;D

Sorry I don't have more time, but I'll be back another day.

 

[bonustreak]

Joe has been a mentor for many that I know and he is my best mentor ever! There are so many things that he has helped me through over the years, I consider him my family. Never seen someone with such a big heart. Love ya Joe!!

 

[Nandakishore]

It's a good sign that Robin will be leading the audit team. I hope she manages to make the auditing process and results transparent to us, the webmasters.


Nandakishore
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Link exchange welcome. PM me.

 

[Janet]

Trust is something that has to be earned. I'll continue to trust JTodd's audits.

 

[Goldfinger]

The methodology as I saw it is very elaborate and as Steve said the fact that affs are doing the testing gives the whole thing a networked dimension that will make it virtually impossible to shave without being detected.

The fact that Gamtrak leads the team makes me confident that the results will be an unbiased representation of what was actually found out. And if there are any "problems" getting the truth out maybe people close to the sort could provide an insight track so that we know what programs to steer clear of