Is Rival 21 Grand Casino Going Rogue?

[Rhondagrace]

Hi,

All of this crap going on is making me sick. this total and utter BS and I really need to evaluate what rivals I promote and fast...21 grand is coming off my site right now!!

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi Guys

I am away on holiday at the moment and have just been told about this thread, if you can please wait with me while i contact the office tomorrow and see what is going on, plse hold fire and let me get back to you as soon as i find out the story, i am away and back in the office on Monday, so if you dont hear from me by then that is why, I will do my best to get answers, we are honest and working really hard to gain respect from people soo give me a few days
thanks
C

Sorry, but you're not working hard enough.
The Guru is totally right again - it's not just about his personal issue with your casino, or with that one player you are stealing from, but the Rival set-up as a whole - most importantly SLOW cash-outs.

Like him, I have tried my hardest to defend the Rival brand and give a balanced view when players "go off on one", and what do I get in return? First I get accused by the players of being biased because I am an affiliate (absolutely not true), then I get dismissed by the casinos for "taking the players side" when things go wrong! I just can't win.

Your casinos are already on the "Not Recommended" list at RivalCasinos.co - over the next week or so I may well "upgrade" most of the casinos on that list to rogue, and do the same on my other sites too. It's just not fair on the handful of Rivals who really DO act like a proper casino, that they get tarred with the same brush as the cowboy outfits.

KK

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Wow, I'm speechless (almost) but not really considering how gawd damn Rogue some of these Rival White Label Casinos have truly become lately....

You guys are not going to believe this shit I'm getting ready to post here in a few...

You remember my post a few posts back about my own cashout there at 21 Grand Casino right, and the chat conversation I had....

Well around approx. 5:30pm yesterday I figured I would shoot David Bernstein (affiliate director for BestPay Partners) an email about my cashout issue and have him look into it....

What you are about to read will blow a few of you away here...


To be continued.......
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Sorry for the delay here guys, had to calm down a little before I posted again so as not to totally freak the ladies in the house out...

Anyway, like I said last night, Friday I decided to reply to a promotional email once again that I received from 21Grand Casino like I had already done several other times during the past week that they send everyday, and ask about my cashout once again.

This was the promotional email from 21Grand Casino that had in the subject line: "Your Loyalty Chip is waiting"

Dear Rob,

At 21GrandCasino we want to show you our appreciation for your patronage at our casino

We are happy to invite you to Loyalty Road, our monthly free loyalty treat.

This Friday all you have to do is put on your Tuxedo or your cocktail dress, go to the cashier and claim your bonus!

Limo service on the house.

See you at the tables!


Sincerely,

Julien D.

Customer Support Manager

Support@21GrandCasino.com

International: 1-702-799-9954

So I then decide to reply back to this email and also include a CC copy to David Bernstein to see what he could find out about my cashout there....This is the email I sent...


From: xxxxxxxxxx @ xxxxx. net
To: "21 GrandCasino" <support@21grandcasino.com>
Cc: "david" <david@bestpaypartners.net>
References: <0.0.0.44.1CB672797493D18.0@mta1.sut5.co.uk>
Subject: David, you may want to read this as well...
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 17:33:05 -0400

"
We're on "DAY 10" now and you have still not paid me my cashout from Sep. 29th!! What is up with that?

My account name there is xxxxxxxxxxxx

Why do you guys not answer or respond to emails? The last email yesterday was the 8th email unanswered in the past week from you guys!

You do realize that I am also one of your affiliates too, don't you?

Well you should, as TheGamblingGurus.com is my site....

Do you really want to be added to the Rogue List here? Rogue Blacklisted Casinos List ~ Online Casinos | USA Casinos | Gambling Gurus

Do you really, before you answer that, maybe you should Google 'Rogue Blacklisted Casinos'

Rogue Blacklisted Casinos - Google Search

This is absolutely insane that I have waited for my cashin now for 10 full days and it still has not been paid and I am one of your affiliates for krists sake who clearly promote you guys....

21GrandCasino ~ 21 Grand Casino Review ~ Online Casinos | USA Casinos | Gambling Gurus

But if you cannot even answer a players question or simply respond to even one email then you clearly deserve the "Rogue Pit"!!

I've really tried to give you guys the benefit of doubt here but my patience have now run out! Enough is Enough!!!

Sincerely,

Rob XXXXXXXXX

AKA... "TheGamblingGuru"

PS. There's No Loyalty Chip in my player account either!!
"
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Well the "promotion of 21 Grand Casino" has certainly changed since I sent that email as you can clearly see from the link I included to their promotion page in my email above at TheGamblingGurus.com

Anyway, I got a reply back from David Bernstein on Friday evening, note this is the first reply to any of the previous emails that I had sent over the past week.


"Hi xxxxxxxxx

Im affiliate director and I have never heard about this payment issue before

I will get it sorted for you tonight....

It could be if you are on wire transfer you havent been paid as this takes longer

have a good weekend

--

David Bernstein
Affiliate Director"

____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

So I reply back with this email......


"No, no wire transfer. It was to be paid into my eCheckUS GlobalATM account and eCheck shows where the check cleared on Monday. Rather it says Completed, instead of Pending.

So it should be showing up in my GlobalATM account but of course it still says "Processing" still in 21Grands cashier as it has now said for the past 10 days.

Sincerely,

Rob"
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

So then David replys back with this email.....

"sorry are you an affiliate that also has a player account?"
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

And I then reply back with this email.....

"Yes. exactly. I have a player account at every casino that we promote. There's no other way to promote safe casinos to our players if I cannot test their systems.

I have had a player account there longer than I have promoted the casino though.

Rob"


Note: These are still email exchanges from Friday night.....
_____
_____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

That was the last I heard from him on Friday night and then yesterday evening, I get this mind blowing email from David below.....

______________________________________________________
"from bestpaypartners david @ bestpaypartners . net
to xxxxxxxxxxxxx @ xxxxxx . net
date Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 6:01 PM
subject Re: David, you may want to read this as well...


I understand

at our casino this is considered fraud...

If you needed to make a test you must let the company know first that this is what you are doing..."
______________________________________________________


This email here just absolutely blew me away......
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Of course I reply back to that email with the one below...................

_________________________________________________

"You've got to be kidding me David, are you really sure you want to go down this route? When I made a cashout back on April 23rd there it was processed to my Quicktender account with no problem whatsoever. If there had of been any issue at all with me also being an affiliate then it should have been made clear then.

Hell, I made 8 deposits to the casino after that cashout in April.

Do you actually realize how many affiliates you have that actually play at 21 Grand Casino also, this type of Rogue behavior in your answer here is truly beyond belief.

You have still failed to say why I have not received my cashout yet, why is that?

You and I both know that it has absolutely nothing at all to do with whether I am an affiliate or not.

I expect to hear back from you real soon regarding this issue David!

Sincerely,

Rob xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
______________________________________________________________

____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

I've heard nothing from David or anyone else since my last email yesterday evening....
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Does anyone besides myself find it strange that not a single Rival Casino Rep from one of the 'so-called' good Rival Programs has not even bothered to chime in here and make a statement regarding this thread or even a statement about why they would never get to this point with their Rival Casino?

Am I the only one that finds this behavior strange?
____
____

 

[KasinoKing]

Does anyone besides myself find it strange that not a single Rival Casino Rep from one of the 'so-called' good Rival Programs has not even bothered to chime in here and make a statement regarding this thread or even a statement about why they would never get to this point with their Rival Casino?

Am I the only one that finds this behavior strange?

To be honest, no I don't find it strange.
Casino reps know that if they post anything on a forum they are just setting themselves up as "sitting ducks" for people to take pot-shots at. I can quite understand why they may be reluctant to give involved in any forum arguments.

Back to your issue with 21 Grand; I totally agree with you - being an affiliate AND a player should be ENCOURAGED not frowned upon. I have accounts at just about every casino I promote on my sites, and definitely at ALL Rival casinos. Of course, I make sure I don't sign-up under my own affy account - I either use another affiliate or go direct to the casino without a link.

KK

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

To be honest, no I don't find it strange.
Casino reps know that if they post anything on a forum they are just setting themselves up as "sitting ducks" for people to take pot-shots at. I can quite understand why they may be reluctant to give involved in any forum arguments.

Back to your issue with 21 Grand; I totally agree with you - being an affiliate AND a player should be ENCOURAGED not frowned upon. I have accounts at just about every casino I promote on my sites, and definitely at ALL Rival casinos. Of course, I make sure I don't sign-up under my own affy account - I either use another affiliate or go direct to the casino without a link.

KK

It may well be in the affiliate/players best interest now to check with EVERY Rival Casino to see if it is still ok to play at the casino(s) the program represents as an affiliate now since 21Grand Casino and/or BestPay Partners has thrown this rogue term into the mix here...

Even the so-called good ones that AffiliateWide and Sloto represent...it's a shame too, really.

So basically, what can we expect next from these Rogue Rival White Label Casinos that are no more than a glorified affiliate running both the casino and the program?

A few "Rogue Rival Cowboys" here damaging the Rival Brand beyond repair!

More to come soon....

____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

To be honest, no I don't find it strange.
Casino reps know that if they post anything on a forum they are just setting themselves up as "sitting ducks" for people to take pot-shots at. I can quite understand why they may be reluctant to give involved in any forum arguments.

KK

IMO they are already "sitting ducks" by association, whether here at AGD or elsewhere...

They may want to consider that fact and clear their own good name (if they still have one left) before it really is too late!
____
____

 

[Guard Dog]

I was seriously getting more and more agitated on each response I read here. And I'll tell you why...

Firstly, 21Grand (and ANY casino for that matter) should not even be *taking deposits* if they are going to take 10 days to pay the player. It is absolutely ridiculous!!!

Secondly, TGG clearly stated that he was a *player first*. What does that mean???? It means there is NO FREAKIN WAY he could have played on his own affiliate tag!!!! Not to mention that this is *almost always* the first question CRAPPY casinos ask when you ask about payouts that should have already been paid. Why? Because they are trying to find some excuse. No other reason to even bring it up. AND - can't he find that information from himself??? Not that hard, buddy.


21Grand - get your act together. And quick. Maybe I should find a way to 'port' my Affiliate Payments Calendar to CasinoMeister for 'Player Payments'. I'll talk to Bryan about this and fund the source code changes to get it done. I would love to take this information and then mark programs with SHITTY casinos with a big fat warning.

Ok - Tirade over. I'm just super frustrated over all this. Keep on them Rob.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Thanks Andy, and you are absolutely right.

As far as I know I have never signed up under my own affiliate tag. It has always been under one of you guys, CM, KK and a few others or I have simply typed the URL in the address bar direct.

Today makes day 12 of it still saying processing in the cashier.

I just hope for Patrick and Matt's sake that they can get these cowboy operators (licensee's) under control and soon for their own brands good.
____
____

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Also forgot to mention that the Casinomeister idea regarding payout times sounds great!
____
____

 

[Guard Dog]

Also forgot to mention that the Casinomeister idea regarding payout times sounds great!
____
____

I literally just wrote Bryan a huge-long email about that If he is interested, I will have the developer begin tailoring it to a good CM app. I will cover all development costs and theming.

Agreed... Patrick... Matt... Jan... They NEED to listen. I'm seriously about to stop promotion of ALL Rivals. I'm not too far off of this.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

I'm seriously about to stop promotion of ALL Rivals. I'm not too far off of this.

With all due respect Andy (I'm not singling you out just using your statement) but these white labels and Rival for that matter have thrived because people (that's players and affiliates) keep putting up with their BS!

Seriously these payment issues are not a new thing, they've been ongoing and increasing across the white label brands for ages. It's like a damn cancer.

Rival and their licensees keep snubbing their noses at players and affiliates because they can. No one follows through with their threats to yank them and; players keep depositing.

It's pretty obvious where I'm sitting that the time for trying to help Rival is long gone.
Their arrogance and refusal to take action against their white labels shows they don't give a toss.

JMO but Rival have been playing everyone for suckers



Cheers



Dave