Litecoin, Ethereum & other Crypto-Currencies

CygX1

CygX1

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The CHIPS currency appears to be solely focused on the land based casino and poker VIP markets so it's a different thing (transforming BTC into casino chips and vice versa). I will look into this more deeply though as it might be interesting in the long term.

With betterbetting I agree that any such currency might not necessarily need a cryptocurrency attached to it. However, I do not see any other existing coin or option to offer bookmaker odds without involvement of a bookmaker.

The KMD idea I did not fully analyze yet either as an ETH-based online casino sounds very speculative to me.
 
PROFRBcom

PROFRBcom

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I'm shocked this thread isn't blowing up. I assume many people are crying and/or drinking heavily given the carnage in cryptos today!
 
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baldidiot

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Totally my fault guys, I bought some crypto the other day - usually me entering a market is when it starts to tank ;)
 
Frank

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slotplayer said:
We'll see how it shakes out but these downward spirals are caused from regulatory crackdowns.
Click to expand...
SK went back on their comment and China have been saying and doing the same thing for years, I have seen this happen so many times, the difference is the value of the coins were less but % still the same
 
slotplayer

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Frank said:
SK went back on their comment and China have been saying and doing the same thing for years, I have seen this happen so many times, the difference is the value of the coins were less but % still the same
Click to expand...

The way I see it is trading is much more widespread and the amount of money involved is significant. Governments can't ignore it anymore.

Same thing happened with selling online in 2012, the US finally got around to regulating it.
 
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baldidiot

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Here's a random question... anyone here invested in any crypto funds?

Got me thinking as the pre-sale for the Apex fund of funds is launching today.
 
TheGooner

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baldidiot said:
Here's a random question... anyone here invested in any crypto funds?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads up - Interesting - I've had a look at it.

OBSERVATIONS :
-----------------------
The 15% upfront charge is a interesting approach to fund charges instead of ongoing performance fees. I note that they're only projecting a 24-36 month life for the fund ... I guess that's how much work $3m + 15% gets you from hedge fund people

(They get paid up to $18m if all 100 million tokens sell).

So on day 1 your $1 invested is only worth $0.82 after they take their upfront slice. To be fair they do spell this out in the whitepaper.

They claim (in P17 of the whitepaper) to have outperformed bitcoin by 3000% in "the first half of 2017" with their crypto hedge fund - frankly I find that an outrageous bit of "puffery" that they clearly didn't manage in the second half and couldn't possibly maintain when managing a fund of $100m.

COMPANY SIZE :
-----------------------
Using LinkedIn I have identified at it's a small company of 2-10 employees based in the British Virgin Islands.

$18 million divided between 2-10 employees for 2-3 years work is a good payday for Apex, and I cannot find ANY track record about any of these people and other funds yet ... so it's very speculative to say the least.

CONCLUSION :
------------------------
They've clearly pitched this at people that don't want to, or don't know how to, buy and hold crypto-tokens. Except of course you have to hold the APEX token - but I guess they'll have an easy app for that.

It's an obvious ploy to attract the retail investor, and it's an easy moneymaker for them and you could do worse than throw an ETH token or two at this and see how it does. If it does 1/10th as well as their boast then it's going to be a good performer.

I've started the registration process ... am sorely tempted to put in a very small amount ... even just for the experience.
:)
 
Frank

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TheGooner said:
Thanks for the heads up - Interesting - I've had a look at it.

OBSERVATIONS :
-----------------------
The 15% upfront charge is a interesting approach to fund charges instead of ongoing performance fees. I note that they're only projecting a 24-36 month life for the fund ... I guess that's how much work $3m + 15% gets you from hedge fund people

(They get paid up to $18m if all 100 million tokens sell).

So on day 1 your $1 invested is only worth $0.82 after they take their upfront slice. To be fair they do spell this out in the whitepaper.

They claim (in P17 of the whitepaper) to have outperformed bitcoin by 3000% in "the first half of 2017" with their crypto hedge fund - frankly I find that an outrageous bit of "puffery" that they clearly didn't manage in the second half and couldn't possibly maintain when managing a fund of $100m.

COMPANY SIZE :
-----------------------
Using LinkedIn I have identified at it's a small company of 2-10 employees based in the British Virgin Islands.

$18 million divided between 2-10 employees for 2-3 years work is a good payday for Apex, and I cannot find ANY track record about any of these people and other funds yet ... so it's very speculative to say the least.

CONCLUSION :
------------------------
They've clearly pitched this at people that don't want to, or don't know how to, buy and hold crypto-tokens. Except of course you have to hold the APEX token - but I guess they'll have an easy app for that.

It's an obvious ploy to attract the retail investor, and it's an easy moneymaker for them and you could do worse than throw an ETH token or two at this and see how it does. If it does 1/10th as well as their boast then it's going to be a good performer.

I've started the registration process ... am sorely tempted to put in a very small amount ... even just for the experience.
:)
Click to expand...

Read the whitepapers first... effectively I read it that tokens can be traded (used as an investment vehicle to restricted Regualtion S stock) so really its a case of buying and selling worthless pink sheet stick using crypto whose value is built upon VC and penny stock companies not legal to sell to U.S persons.. lots of alarms here
 
Frank

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TheGooner said:
Frank are you reading the same thing? I did read the whitepaper.
It has nothing to do with penny stock companies that I can see.

This Apex offering is a closed fund of funds - that simply takes holdings in other crypto funds.
Click to expand...

I looked at a site called apex token.. could be different? here are some statements "Apex Token is excited to introduce Apex Token Fund I, a tokenized FOF investment vehicle, with assets managed by a diverse selection of the top performing crypto-focused hedge funds. This new financial instrument is immediately resellable to non-U.S. Persons"

Then...

e Fund will be liquidated. Liquidation will likely occur in a window between twenty four and thirty six months after APEX tokens are issued. After the assets are liquidated, investors can exchange their APEX tokens for their proportional value of the final Fund’s 14 Apex Token INC assets

Then...

The APEX tokens may only be offered, sold, resold or otherwise transferred to non-U.S. Persons (as defined in Regulation S under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended (‘Regulation S’)) in an offshore transaction

Then...
Our team’s experience managing a highly successful crypto-focused hedge fund....

So will these be managed in Regulation-S investments which have a 3 year lock down before liquidity rendering these tokens useless pretty much?
 
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baldidiot

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The fees do seem quite high, especially if that's on top of the fees charged by the underlying funds (which I'm assuming it is). But this is crypto and 'founding fees' tend to be pretty high, esp as it will be on top of the fees charged by the underlying funds... at least the 15% is locked for a year (to maturity if you're talking 24-36 yr exit strategies would be better though).

I've heard of a couple of the underlying funds - Pantera and Multicoin in particular keep cropping up on various radars - hence being curious about this FoF, it's actually how I found out about it. Especially now the investment funds have started hoovering up any decent looking ICO in private pre-sales with much more favourable rates than the open sale (wepower, for example, sold 75% of the tokens to hedge funds at +25% leaving a cap of 0.2eth per person for the first round of the public sale).

Tbh I've not actually properly investigated this and the private presale is now closed anyway, have until march until the public presale to look into it a bit more. Like you say Mr Gooner, could be worth a couple of coins just on a punt (and lets be honest, most crypto is a bit of a punt). Would like to know bit more about the company and the funds first. I may even ask our IFA, but I suspect that will be met with some eye rolls.
 
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baldidiot

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Ps. I'm not from the US so can't really comment on that situation as I'm not familiar with US securities - never something I've needed to know.

Is it not just that it's a non-US fund (BVI I think) so doesn't fall under the SEC rules? Wouldn't say that was necessarily a warning sign, plenty of investments aren't US facing would likely be classed as such.
 
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