Why are Videoslots in the Predatory section?

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[gobo]

My deal of 40% is 40%. It's 40% of NGR - there are no lies here.
The fact that NGR ends up being terribly low after all the fees and deductions from GGR is a different issue.
VS may or may not have bigger fees and deductions than other programs - it's hard to tell because very few (if any) detail out exactly what all their deductions are.

All the other programs I have asked gave me all info I asked for right away. This was really not the case with VS a few months ago.

After years of asking for it - affiliates now get more transparency from VS than any other program I can think of. Yes, it was VERY frustrating having to wait so long for this - but it's here now, so lets not dwell on the past.
KK

Trust is something that takes long to earn. I don't feel that I can fully trust Videoslots yet, even though they have implemented a lot of new great reports (ahead of most other programs).

The past is a huge part of how they conduct their business today. As I stated earlier - hopefully they will regain their trust but that will take way longer than just a few weeks or them implementing new cool features.

I would like to see more transparency when it comes to their T&C for instance. Why not state what all the fees are? Why not specify that the admin fee is 25%? I suspect that they prefer it to be left out of the T&C so that their programs is easier to market. 40% Rev Share minus fees sounds way better than 40% rev share where the affiliates actually see all the numbers.

 

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[AussieDave]

This is not nice reading - but at least it's totally honest!
Figures from my last 3 months, averaged - as a percentage of GGR:
J/Pot Deduction . . . . 0.99%
Gaming taxes. . . . . . 6.51%
Bank Fees . . . . . . . . 7.48%
Provider Fees. . . . . . 9.41%
Admin Fee. . . . . . . . 24.76%
Bonus Given . . . . . . 24.55%
Paid Loyalty. . . . . . . 11.39%
Net Gaming Rev . 14.95%
My Commission . . 5.98%

My deal of 40% is 40%. It's 40% of NGR - there are no lies here. The fact that NGR ends up being terribly low after all the fees and deductions from GGR is a different issue.

How is it a different issue???!!!

Your commission paid out according to you is "My Commission..5.98%". Granted it is 40% of NGR

BUT...

Lets put it this way, if VS affiliate program had been 100% transparent/honest, and disclosed the actually fees, costs, deductions etc., etc... from the get go. No affiliate in their right mind, would have joined the program.

Lets not side step the fact(s), for many years they hid data and refused to answer your questions, and other affiliates questions too, relating to GGR fees/deductions. Essentially they gave you, and others talk to the hand excuses and a basket of broken promises. Hell even the CEO BS'ed you, m8.

VS aff program know it, Miles knows it, and affiliates are now knowing it too, including you. Regardless if you'll nod to in a public forum or not.

You seem like a decent sort of guy Mark. I hold no malice towards you. But, in saying that (my observations have been), that you seem to always stick up, defend or otherwise justify bad actions of programs you affiliate with...just sayin

 

[gobo]

I am very very thurough when I choose a program to work with. I ALWAYS ask for exact breakdowns of the stats (even with examples) before signing up. I did so with VS as well years ago. There was no admin fee back then. So I joined because of that I liked the numbers and calculations and wanted to give Videoslots a shot. The conversions were great so I decided to continue.

However, I also saw a huge drop in the revenue (with the same traffic, NDCs, signups) and I suspect that happened when some more fees got introduced (admin fee). However, we will never know beacause it is your word againsyour former AMs. Since you never had 100% transparent T&C, there is no way to tell even if we go back and look at your old versions of the T&C.

Just as AussieDave says here above - if there would have been 25% admin fees back then I would never have joined.

 

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[AussieDave]

if there would have been 25% admin fees back then I would never have joined.

I can't prove it, but that doesn't stop me thinking it, or sharing my opinions on a forum.

In nearly 18 years (as an affiliate), I'm really stumped to see how a casino with supposedly such insanely high operational costs, can not only survive, but flourish and grow into one of, if not, the largest browser based casino online. Not withstanding the fact, they have now acquired the rights to PKR Poker software etc.

Things simple don't add up here. Unless of course, and as I've shared before, the poor affiliates of VS aff program, are be slogged 100% of ALL operational costs incurred by Video Slots Ltd. Which would leave VS with a mighty attractive income.

Which, given what we now know (suspect), that VS have used a premeditated plan, to essentially rob their affiliates blind. Non disclosure of actual affiliate deductions, could be, and most likely would be conceived as a bona fide RUSE.

Given, the manner in which the program was marketed to affiliates, in the 1'st place.

Worse, Miles comes here representing VS aff program, and expects to be removed for this Predatory section... That's just too funny for words - even from me

 

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[Book of Ra review]

stats is way more important than the rest. they better solve it asap

 

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[Engineer]

Transparency doesn't necessarily mean a program is affiliate friendly.

As a general rule, the minimum an affiliate should take home is 25% of deposits. This has been the standard minimum amount for as long as I can remember.

Taking home at least 25% of deposits is fair. Taking home less than 20% is not really fair. Taking home only 5.98% is clearly very unfair, and the Predatory label is well deserved, in my opinion, because it is so, so far below industry standards.

 

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[gobo]

Transparency doesn't necessarily mean a program is affiliate friendly.

As a general rule, the minimum an affiliate should take home is 25% of deposits. This has been the standard minimum amount for as long as I can remember.

Taking home at least 25% of deposits is fair. Taking home less than 20% is not really fair. Taking home only 5.98% is clearly very unfair, and the Predatory label is well deserved, in my opinion, because it is so, so far below industry standards.

Agree to 100%!

I have a high rev share deal (%) since I send lots of players. My commission is still under 6% of player deposits so far this year. Horrendous!

 

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[slotplayer]

6 cents on the dollar - no thanks

 

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[gobo]

When comparing my numbers in my previous post (under 6%) with the numbers a few years ago I see a big difference. In 2015, my commission was 20% of the total deposits (even with a couple of negative months).

The numbers don't lie.

 

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[gobo]

Ok, so I checked the stats for 2016 as well. January to April still on 20%.

After that, there is a decline down to about 10% from May to August. Then I don't have any deposit stats for the rest of the year. Or I might have them in some email somewhere or in some Skype history.

@Miles_Videoslots - it would be great if you could turn on the deposit stats for 2016 as well in the reports so that we can see exactly when our commissions plummeted from about 20% to 5-6%. That way, we might be able to convince you that Videoslots introduced some fees without telling us.

Or do you have a better explanation why the drop in commissions when compared to deposits?

 

[AussieDave]

NB - they also hit their players with a 50% operational fee deduction, on the touted 25% cashback (booster), which is paid on theoretical rtp. From my records, it was heaps higher in 2016. I a few of us here, figured it out to be around 1%.

BUT... and that's a BIG BUT... I've crunched the number recently, since noticing a huge drop in cashback, for many months. Only to discover, it's now around 0.33% to 0.39% for every $100 I wager.

So that seems to have taken a BIG SLUG this year, too.

 

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[Webzcas]

My 5 cents for what it is worth. VS are well liked by players that is without question. Would I work with them? Not unless it is a tenancy.

This is an interesting thread BTW. Miles, you seem like a nice bloke. Dave is also a nice bloke. I didn't see him as attacking you. But I get your point.

 

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[Casino-Matt]

I only just realised there were deposit and withdrawal stats added for this year. So I've been trying to crunch the numbers month by month for this year.

My rev share is 40% but as this is only based on one tracker and they did not bother to mention that when they upped my, the rev share for half the year was 35%. Bad start that, sneaky buggers.

Worked out from deposits - withdrawals on a month by month basis and compared to the earnings for those months:

Yearly earnings would be about 15% of their profits.
Real earnings (what has been paid out to me) is about 12% of these profits.
If I were to factor in negative carry over (which I don't have) I would actually be in the negative of about €44 for every €1,000 profit they make...

Based on the "breakdown" my commissions versus GGR is about 5%.

I could of course have things completely wrong because these stats are not taking into account player balances before 2017 or player balances today. The stats are also very confusing in that they don't seem to add up properly anyways. Or maybe I am doing something wrong. Either way I dumped them off good positions a while ago because I have far far better earners.

As Webzcas says, they can have a good position for a tenancy fee if they want bu that's the only way I can see it happening.

 

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[gobo]

The stats are also very confusing in that they don't seem to add up properly anyways. Or maybe I am doing something wrong. Either way I dumped them off good positions a while ago because I have far far better earners.

The stats in the breakdown does not add up for me either.

 

[Casino-Matt]

The stats in the breakdown does not add up for me either.

Yeah I am very confused. I have tried it another way and worked out the lifetime value per registered player (including no deposit players, players who never played at all, etc). Average lifetime player value per registration is €13

Not the worst performer if I use those stats (BringIt is on €5.72 per registration) but compared to many it is pathetic (got some with NCO also featuring no deposit bonuses which are miles ahead).

Perhaps I should work out lifetime player value of depositing players only but to be honest I can't really be bothered. Do I feel like VS are paying me a fair whack? No. And that is good enough for now.

 

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[AussieDave]

VS are well liked by players that is without question.

VS give low-rollers far more comps, cashback and free spins, than any other casino online. It would seem, their business model is based on providing that type of service to, that type of player base. They also pay winnings extremely fast, and withdrawals under 1,500 are processed 24/7. Anything over 1,500 is paid between 7am - 1am Malta time.

However if your a high roller, and your opinion of a great casino is based on the amount of loyalty rewards you receive, or are looking for a bespoke VIP deal, then VS is not for you. Regardless of your XP Level, you will only receive the same rewards as low-rollers. Most times, far less, in my experience.

Ironically, and reiterating my previous posts...

VS would not have such a HUGE player base, without their loyal affiliate partners (most being with them from day 1) referring said players to VS.

For VS et al to then pay their affiliates peanuts, is, well, very bad form indeed, imho.

If they (VS aff program) have the genuine desire to escape the Predatory Pit, then they'll have to fix up their act. By, stop slogging their affiliate partners 100% of their business operational costs, and start paying folks the fair accepted industry standard for affiliates, which works out at around 25% of deposits made. If VS wont come to that party, then I guess this is where they shall remain...

 

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[AussieDave]

That's a total of 21 'affiliate management reminders' sent, since the last post by Miles. I think it's far to say, he's left the building.

I have my doubts if he'll return any time soon.

Oh and btw, make that 22 reminders

 

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[AussieDave]

AFAIK you don't even work with Videoslots

@KasinoKing - I just read that comment...

As a point of reference, CM doesn't promote rogues, but that doesn't stop him throwing them in the rogue pit. Nor does it stop him commenting on such topics. And you m8, you support CM to the hilt.

So don't come here spewing that BS, trying to make me look like the bad person...sheesh!

@BetReels - thanking him for such comments, shows your true colours... just sayin

 

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