How are you doing with Rival?

[RockbetJohn]

If you don't think it's such a big deal to answer just a 'few questions' why don't you ask some other affiliate managers to see if they would give you the time of day. I doubt they would. I don't mind tough questions but I don't have time for being disrespected either and will stand up for myself.

As for the bonus abuse comments this is yet another can of worms but I have a lot of trust in Rivals network of tracking players and bonus abuse. This has improved over the past few months to be more accomodating but again it's another sensitive topic and I'm not going to explain any of the features or algorithms for tracking bonus hunters where this could be used against the casinos. If you want any explanation just ask, I used to be a bonus whore myself and I know Rival doesn't ban good players for the hell of it, if we did all affiliates wouldn't really make any money. If anybody wants this cleared up I will do this in person and show you some of my own reports in person, I won't give out player personal data but I'll show you what goes on behind the scenes and scarier reports when no action is taken.

slotplayer: that was a cheap shot and I don't appreciate it. If you truly think Rivals only care for tracked players then why on earth would you have a This is Vegas banner at the top of your site? ...

GamblingGuru: Why can't you talk to me or send me an email? I have offered you plenty of advice and help in the past. I have mentioned numerous times that your questions are not easy to answer and some of them I cannot and will not post in a public forum. If you want to call me a crybaby on a forum you can do as you wish but I don't think it is professional if you want to question my own professionalism. If you don't like Rivals, don't promote them. If you have something you would like to say to me please call me or email me but otherwise I don't have time for flaming on a forum.

This is my optional time to spend on these questions and I could have very well not bothered. I don't mind going the extra mile to help affiliates or to contribute here but all I ask for is a bit of respect and I'm not asking for any praise or to stroke my ego. I like to take an honest approach in how I do business so I don't shy away from tough questions but if some affiliates won't show me any respect at all then please don't ask me any questions or for my help.

Of course I'll stick around.

John

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

If you don't think it's such a big deal to answer just a 'few questions' why don't you ask some other affiliate managers to see if they would give you the time of day. I doubt they would.

OK, Just for the record there are several great affiliate managers here who do interact well IMO.

I don't mind tough questions but I don't have time for being disrespected either and will stand up for myself.

Who dis-respected you and how?

John, some of your comments here have just blown me away in the attitude you have shown when you make them and also your response to a statement or comment. It seems you are under a lot of pressure or on edge a lot judging by the statements you make and the way you make them.

GamblingGuru: Why can't you talk to me or send me an email?

I thought we were talking here or at least I was trying to articulate the conversation with you until you started taking everything that is said so personal.

I have offered you plenty of advice and help in the past.

Yes you have and I sincerely thanked you for that at the time but I will also thank you again here as well..

I have mentioned numerous times that your questions are not easy to answer and some of them I cannot and will not post in a public forum.

Understood, no problems there as far as I am concerned. That's all you had to of said in the first post and left it at that but you had to go on to say that you "felt" like you were getting attacked on this issue esp from GamblingGuru. IMO, that's when the discussion or dialog starting going south because in my view all I was doing is asking a couple of questions.

If you want to call me a crybaby on a forum you can do as you wish but I don't think it is professional if you want to question my own professionalism.

So I take it the "Constructive Criticism" comment was not accepted well?

If you don't like Rivals, don't promote them.

Who said I didn't like Rivals, hell I love Rival Casinos and I play at some of them everyday and I also promote around 18 or 19 of them. I have for the past three months went to bat for Rival Casinos over at Casinomeister on several different occasions and in several different threads. And in some of those I was in fact the only one in that thread that did stand up for Rival Casinos. If you ever want to read some of those just let me know and I will hook you up with the links.

If you have something you would like to say to me please call me or email me but otherwise I don't have time for flaming on a forum.

Who's flaming??

This is my optional time to spend on these questions and I could have very well not bothered. I don't mind going the extra mile to help affiliates or to contribute here but all I ask for is a bit of respect and I'm not asking for any praise or to stroke my ego. I like to take an honest approach in how I do business so I don't shy away from tough questions but if some affiliates won't show me any respect at all then please don't ask me any questions or for my help.

I don't know what type of respect you are referring to here other than the same respect that we all show each other. I've been on this beautiful planet for damn near 50 years now and the one thing that I have managed to learn in that time frame is the fact that you or me or anyone else here has to "Earn" Respect, and I don't mean just in this forum here but in the larger sense. That is not just one of those things that comes easy or lightly in life but rather is "earned". That's also a two way street as well, my friend.

Of course I'll stick around.

John

And I am thankful for that..

 

[slotplayer]

slotplayer: that was a cheap shot and I don't appreciate it. If you truly think Rivals only care for tracked players then why on earth would you have a This is Vegas banner at the top of your site? ...

I posted my rationale for my statement.

but thanks I've been meaning to remove that TIV banner.

 

[Nicolas-Johnson]

While I wouldn't touch the John/Guru issue with a 10 foot pole , I would like to comment on something John said regarding the original intent of this thread:

Do Rivals provide the best player values? I don't think so and I also don't believe this can be achieved over night either but I think Rivals give good value for your traffic. Based on performance from affiliate feedback the top 3 affiliate programs are not Rivals and I never said Rival was the best. I do feel there are many good reasons for promoting Rivals but you don't need to put all your eggs in one basket. If you want answers or ways of improving player values with your program just ask your AM and see if they can help, or at least be able to provide some answers.

I agree that Rival's do not provide the best player value. Now having said that, not only are we working on getting there and I'm personally sure we will soon provide the highest player value, but measured on a profit to advertising exposure rate, we do come in pretty high on the list of the most profitable.

I know that at Vegas Regal Casino, our per player value is not very high. But our conversion rates compensate this for many of our affiliates to make us one of their high earners.

If you promote a program that has no free chip, under a 50% sign up bonus, etc, then the players that DO sign up will be of higher value, as this type of promotion isn't very attractive to bonus hunters and low value players. But how much advertising exposure do one of those places need before you convert a player?

I also agree with John on him stating Rival casinos don't have as much experience. This is a big factor. Not only because of the operational advantages of experience, but also the branding aspect. Some of the older software providers have casinos that have been advertising and therefore branding for many many years. And while many don't think much of branding, I do... I really believe that Branding makes a difference, especially for the larger players. I have to thank Dominique for really making me realize this.

If you were going to drop $50/month on an online casino, reputation doesn't mean as much as if your budget is $50k/month. Likewise, if you are only betting a little bit, bonuses will mean more to you. This is of course a generality, so there are many exceptions, but I think this is something that does come into play.

And John, it is nice to see you here, your answers help the affiliate community, and therefore our affiliates. People like you make this place a better place... and it was pretty cool even without you 8)

 

[bb1webs]

Hi all

John sorry to see you're having a hard time.

That said: and I'm no expert on the tasks of an AM other than what i have seen over the last 10 years but I'm getting a bit offended myself that I am expected to believe that showing up at these forums is some sort of great favor done towards the affs.

You show up because it gains you affs. Simple.

Showing up means there are going to be some tough questions especially when the fact is that all the dancing and rationalizing and excusing in the world won't change such a pathetic bottom line and that's where we look.

......

Nick, your statement that making up for lack of retention by having better conversions ... well when you've been around a while longer you'll understand that we DO NOT care what all the other stats say ...... if the bottom line continually sucks in comparison to other places we could have been sending that valuable traffic.

.....


AMs all too often get this same attitude I tend to get when I'm just after harvest and I'm packed with all kinds of good pot to smoke. I don't bother with the small stuff ... always break out a new bud for every smoking session and let the remains of the last all fall into a big container which later when I am nearly out of all the premo stuff ... I go back thru and use what at first I was too spoiled to bother with


Casinos piss away hard earned players in just such fashion and I say that about all of them not just Rivals.

...................

Many are saying they will continue to promote Rivals.

I will and have already begun to replace them with RTGs (and most that know me ... know how i feel about RTG which says a lot about how crappy I feel towards the chances that Rival will turn things around now).

I hope I'm wrong. Hurry up Rival! You're running out of time.

 

[RockbetJohn]

bb1webs: by no means am I obligated to participate in these forums but I make this decision to do so while most couldn't be bothered. I also don't think it is required to do so to get affiliates as I have seen other programs do just as well, if not better by keeping out of it completely. Affiliates like Dominique and GuardDog do ask tough questions and I always answer but I find they are respectful. Again I'm not asking for a pat on the back but I thought affiliates wanted more participation from programs. It is ironic that I have had other well known AMs comment about this thread specifically saying I am better off to just ignore. Tough questions I can handle but I don't have time for any disrespect.

Once again this thread was about Rival's performance and I answered a lot of questions here that most wouldn't. I am not obligated to stay here but like any other human being I only ask for some respect.

As for Rivals themselves they are constantly improving and I have no doubt they will be some of the top programs in the industry very soon. The programs and Rival people are working very hard and I find most take the time to listen on ways to improve.

I'm taking time off the forums soon for 2 reasons, one I don't need to argue as nothing is being accomplished by it and second I'm working on some big program improvements. I won't say what but if you want to know ask me personally or keep and eye out for some emails.

John

 

[Nicolas-Johnson]

Nick, your statement that making up for lack of retention by having better conversions ... well when you've been around a while longer you'll understand that we DO NOT care what all the other stats say ...... if the bottom line continually sucks in comparison to other places we could have been sending that valuable traffic.

I'm not saying this for everyone, I know some of you can't afford to put Rival banners over RTG, that is ok... you must do what's best for your business. All I meant was that looking at player value isn't a complete look at the value an affiliate program provides (bottom line wise). The way I see it, you should also be looking at Commissions earned to advertising exposure ratio. Player value can be skewed by banners that only attract the most valuable clicks while providing low CTR over banners that offer free things and attract higher CTR from yet lower quality traffic.

AMs all too often get this same attitude I tend to get when I'm just after harvest and I'm packed with all kinds of good pot to smoke. I don't bother with the small stuff ... always break out a new bud for every smoking session and let the remains of the last all fall into a big container which later when I am nearly out of all the premo stuff ... I go back thru and use what at first I was too spoiled to bother with

I understand your idea... despite the example being unconventional... people always are more wasteful when there is plenty than when there is scarcity. Having said that, casino's aren't people. They are run by people and some may not pay heed to what you are saying. But some do. I think it would be unfair to lump all online casinos together.

I hope I'm wrong. Hurry up Rival! You're running out of time.

We understand the urgency. Just keep in mind also that nothing worth while comes easy. 8)

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson

 

[bb1webs]

Just keep in mind also that nothing worth while comes easy.

We at least agree on that.

........

In reply to John's statement though I know he won't be back ... is I don't buy what he's saying.

I know TIV got top placement of the Rivals with me ... because he was showing up at the forums.

Nothing else.

I doubt I'm the only one that feels that way. (that its best to support the programs active in the forums).

edited to add: Nick I've not done a lot with Regal because I'm kinda figuring out if any Rival is going to be worth promoting? I've already got a bunch of them and ...

So if and when I do hear of Rival getting it together ... I'll try to remember to get Regal in there and in some of the better spots (not that I'll make you rich anyway but its better than a poke in the eye with sharp stick).

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

We at least agree on that.

........

In reply to John's statement though I know he won't be back ... is I don't buy what he's saying.

I know TIV got top placement of the Rivals with me ... because he was showing up at the forums.

Nothing else.

I doubt I'm the only one that feels that way. (that its best to support the programs active in the forums).

I totally agree with that bb1webs..8)

 

[Guard Dog]

I will say that Rival is worth promoting. I make the majority of my income through Rival Software casinos. To say it's not worth it would mean that I am making not much money from them - and that's not true.

They have only been getting better for me.

John - well, he is THE most active Rival Program Manager as far as I am aware. Nicholas is becoming the same (John has just been a Rival dude for longer) and I appreciate the both of them.

 

[Nicolas-Johnson]

So if and when I do hear of Rival getting it together ... I'll try to remember to get Regal in there and in some of the better spots (not that I'll make you rich anyway but its better than a poke in the eye with sharp stick).

Sounds good BB1. I'm sure you will eventually hear that you can't afford not to promote Rival's. Whether in the next week or months or even a year from now, I'm certain it will eventually happen. And when it does, I will be honored to work with you. It doesn't matter if you send 1 or 100 new dep. It will be a pleasure to have you on board.

John - well, he is THE most active Rival Program Manager as far as I am aware. Nicholas is becoming the same (John has just been a Rival dude for longer) and I appreciate the both of them.

I'm sure both John and I don't feel forum participation is a race, but rather a service that provides value to all parties involved. I'm sure if he decides to invest his time in other ways, it is only in the best interest of his affiliates. I would do the same if I felt the same... perhaps if I had more 'normal' work and less man power (we have two affiliate managers over here). Fortunately I have the time and I get to hand out with great people like the ones here!

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson

 

[bonustreak]

Just a fast note that I am personally still holding strong with Rivals but maybe because I market different from others. I have a few that I promote way more then others that is for sure. Rockbet and Vegas Regal are not making bank for us at the moment but we are building up the player base for now and I trust the casinos to do their part with retention for me. Anytime reps from the casinos take time out to come to forums and post to me is worth looking at when promoting it means they actually care and want to be present to help when then can.

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi there! Just joined up so I could join in the original conversation of this thread.
Obviously I'm unhappy that you are mostly unhappy with your Rival performances, but I am glad to see I'm not the only one making pretty meager scrapings from them. (Thanks for posting your actual figures!)
I am as surprised as anyone else, because a year ago I thought they were going to take off big-time.
But it just hasn't happened.
I'm still getting new players, though less than before, but I seem to also have less wagering players - so to me retention is the key (namely decent follow-on bonuses, or lack of).

I have to say though - I think I see more winning players on Rival than most other softwares, so we can't always expect to see good income.

Anyway, back to the subject matter - my change in income from Q1 to Q2 this year:-

400 Affiliate +384% (Only 2 small commissions in Q1 - loads of players had huge wins!)
Lion Slots -49%
Pantasia -44%
SimonSays -100%
SlotoCash +26%
Slots of Fortune -81%
All Rival casinos combined; -24%

I guess it's the economic climate at the moment, and to be fair my income is down massively across ALL softwares, in fact, Rival is one of the most steady ones.
I just don't know what the answer is, or what will happen next...

KK

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Hi there! Just joined up so I could join in the original conversation of this thread.
Obviously I'm unhappy that you are mostly unhappy with your Rival performances, but I am glad to see I'm not the only one making pretty meager scrapings from them. (Thanks for posting your actual figures!)
I am as surprised as anyone else, because a year ago I thought they were going to take off big-time.
But it just hasn't happened.
I'm still getting new players, though less than before, but I seem to also have less wagering players - so to me retention is the key (namely decent follow-on bonuses, or lack of).

I have to say though - I think I see more winning players on Rival than most other softwares, so we can't always expect to see good income.

Anyway, back to the subject matter - my change in income from Q1 to Q2 this year:-

400 Affiliate +384% (Only 2 small commissions in Q1 - loads of players had huge wins!)
Lion Slots -49%
Pantasia -44%
SimonSays -100%
SlotoCash +26%
Slots of Fortune -81%
All Rival casinos combined; -24%

I guess it's the economic climate at the moment, and to be fair my income is down massively across ALL softwares, in fact, Rival is one of the most steady ones.
I just don't know what the answer is, or what will happen next...

KK

Damn!! I guess Andy will just let anyone in here..huh, aw hell..never-mind,
I just looked in the mirror...;D

What's up buddy..

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Rockbet joins "Rogue Pit" at Casinomeister!

I don't apologize for this and I don't have time to argue with these players.

Apparently you don't have the time to talk to or even answer these players emails either since "Casinomeister has just now added Rockbet to the Rogue Pit"

Who would've thunk it or seen this one coming! After 6 emails from the player and another 4 emails from Max, the PAB manager for Casinomeister, Rockbet still fails!! Keep up the good work there John!

You guys can see the news here at 6:20 minutes into Casinomeisters latest video here:

YouTube - Casinomeister's Webcast - 1 October 2009
____
____

 

[bonustreak]

Rivals are getting bad now for me as well. I have a few that are doing good and Ruby Royal has come out of the gate showing great support and players really like them.

Vegas Regal gives way too many free chips out we have so many depositors there but end up in the neg every damn month I am getting fed up.

I think there is way too many bonuses being giving out and now the players expect it!

Players are being called abusers when they are not and managers don't have time to argue with players... wow that end up actually not really being bonus abusers but really good players at other Rival brands that do take the time out to look into the player history and find out that yes this is actually a decent player!

400group I have gone down to barley making $500 bucks, since promoting since 2006 and thousands of players sent to them I am sick about that amount I should be making bank!

Rival needs to stop handing out the casinos like they are candy to everyone that wants one, and they need to focus on helping the operators with obtaining new payment processors.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Rivals are getting bad now for me as well. I have a few that are doing good and Ruby Royal has come out of the gate showing great support and players really like them.

Very true and Ruby Royal has the best "player friendly bonuses" of any "Rival Casino" that I have played or promoted recently! Kudos again to Ruby Royal's management team.

Vegas Regal gives way too many free chips out we have so many depositors there but end up in the neg every damn month I am getting fed up.

I think Vegas Regal could improve their bonuses and bonus structure for better player retention by lifting the max cashout rule on deposit bonuses and lower the bonus percentage given to a more reasonable 100% or so instead of the 250% and 300% type of coupons.

Players are being called abusers when they are not and managers don't have time to argue with players... wow that end up actually not really being bonus abusers but really good players at other Rival brands that do take the time out to look into the player history and find out that yes this is actually a decent player!

Exactly...agreed!

400group I have gone down to barley making $500 bucks, since promoting since 2006 and thousands of players sent to them I am sick about that amount I should be making bank!

I was looking at my stats on 400 Affs on Wed. the 30th late in the evening and it said I had earned $266 and some change for the month of Sep. Lo and behold I look at it early Thurs. morning Oct. 1st and it now says I have $126 for the month of Sep. after it had been around the $266 mark for a few days...hmmmm

Rival needs to stop handing out the casinos like they are candy to everyone that wants one, and they need to focus on helping the operators with obtaining new payment processors.

Agreed again and they also need to work with the other Rival teams regarding ways to help their player retention ratio and get all the initial sign-ups coming back to play there!

 

[Guard Dog]

I still do well with Rivals. 400 has gone way down for me, but would be in the hole everymonth if bundling were still enabled there. DVG is -$x,xxx every month Funny since I have no depositors there.

Sloto is still tops for me most months and overall they are tops by a wide margin (looking over the year).

The comment about giving out casinos like candy... Funny comment, BTW. Now - why does everyone say this about Rival, but never about Microgaming? MGS casinos are everywhere, but nobody complains about new ones popping up (which happens more often than new Rivals do still)

Anyway - soapbox over.

NOW - and more importantly: Rockbet is a Platinum Sponsor here at AGD. A condition of sponsorship is that they CANNOT be a rogue casino at Casinomeister. Mentioned above and in the video is that Rockbet is in the rogue pit. However - I cannot find where Rockbet is in the Roguepit at CM. So, we are in a bit of a quandry.

Does this mean that the problem is resolved? it doesn't look like it is, according to: Rockbet Thread at Casinomeister


It seems that you all know more than me on this one, so I am bowing to your knowledge to help me find the answer

Thank you.

 

[bonustreak]

IMO Rockbet his very humbling and working on this at Meister and should be given a few days to work this out. I think he will not land directly into the pit if he is going in the right direction.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

I'm waiting to hear back from John regarding an email he sent me earlier this morning. I'll give you my opinion on this once I read John's response regarding my response back to him.