How are you doing with Rival?

[TheGamblingGuru]

Just to be clear on a few things.

The reason why I won't be on casinomeister as much is many reasons but one is I don't have time as my roles in the company have changed and it's not part of those responsibilities. I never said it wasn't as important but it's not my job to do that anymore, and that's someone else's job at the moment and perhaps you'll hear from them in the near future.

If that's the case then, you need to appoint a new I-Gaming Rep for Rockbet to Casinomeister's site, and have Bryan remove you from that role there since you are still listed there as the forum Rep for Rockbet. And it is also an integral part of being a Rep on Casinomeister to take an active role in posting there when issues become relevant to that particular I-Gaming Reps program or Casino. This has been stated many times there by Bryan himself.

Casinomeister's Online Casino and Poker Forum - Administrators, Affiliate Managers, and i-Gaming Representatives

It really isn't easy to have a rep on any forum when there are so many out there and Casinomeister is one of many.

True, I can agree with that but the fact that there are so many is a moot point IMO as far as the weight that the Casinomeister Forum carries in the player community. Sure there are many other forums but most of those are made up of being more geared toward the bonus type forums. Not at all in the same realm of forums as the impact and reputation that the Casinomeister Forum carries.

That's been proven over the past 11 years.
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[RockbetJohn]

I am talking with Casinomeister now and am trying to get Rockbet removed from the rogue list. I have promised to handle the player issues personally over the next few months until my own player rep situation is sorted and officially handed off to the next person.

If I didn't care about any of this I wouldn't have bothered posting. The program is hiring more people to improve services. Yes there was a bump in the road but it has been addressed.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

I am talking with Casinomeister now and am trying to get Rockbet removed from the rogue list. I have promised to handle the player issues personally over the next few months until my own player rep situation is sorted and officially handed off to the next person.

John, that is a great step in the right direction. I'm glad to hear that!
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[Bonus Paradise]

Rival casinos are adding up for me this month
getting more new depositors again

I want to post also a special thanks to Connie from Sloto Cash Affiliates and the whole team there,
they did an awesome job in the last weeks, and I see the results
my old players are playing again!

Sloto Cash had some issues with promo e-mails, many players did not get it including me, well now i get them always.
They are sending great promotions and sometime also a nice little free bonus to claim.

Really happy to see many of my old players are depositing at Sloto Cash again this month.

Rockbet and Vegas Days is adding up too.
Vegas Regal ... well finally we not have only negatives there,
We earned last month with Vegas Regal and this month looks good too so far.

I think the Rivals are coming back!

 

[Guard Dog]

Good news! I am seeing the same with Rivals and am darn glad for it since my Microgaming and RTG signups and depositors and overall revenue has gone way down.

 

[tryme1]

I'm still not doing good business with Rivals, but I'm building new sites so my expectations are different from putting them on established sites.

However, I've pushed SlotO'Cash fairly strongly without much success. But Paradise8/400 Affiliates did some good business last month (there's another thread on here where 400 Affiliates say they've got new processors and are converting better).

RIght now..I'm going to pushing Ruby Royal to my South African traffic and I'm going to push Paradise 8 into some better positions.

The thing with Rival is : they've got a really strong USP in the form of the iSlots, but they need to get the rest of their offering (payment processors, fast payouts, etc.) in order.

 

[bb1webs]

agreed.

What blows my mind is that there have been numerous times that the issue of the bonus banning has come up and obviously very little is being done about it which I elude to my pointing out that Rival casinos are enjoying their "15 minutes of fame" right now and as such are acting spoiled.

banning is happening at an outrageous rate and regardless of what has been said

Rival are probably better at detecting bonus abuse and most of these players that do complain at CM when I look at their accounts it's either bonus abuse or multiple accounts, not all the time but most.

problem with that is there should be a giant red flag waving any time we as affiliates are saying that we are experiencing a huge amount of bonus bannings in comparison to our experience with other places.

I mean are we to believe that Rival has their own enemy army of bonus/multiple account abusers which ONLY attacks the Rival casinos and never our other sponsors?

What really is baffling to me however is that if I had anything to do with Rival and I read that affs were claiming an unusually high number of accounts being closed ... and then further to my horror ... that these were in large ... the largest players ...

I would FREAK!!! Forget giving explanations. I'd be wanting to get one. ... I'd be going thru the system process and finding out exactly why affs were claiming that my casinos had this problem in comparison to competitors because if they are losing ... I am losing (unless either I've got so much I don't care eluding to the spoiled ... or .... I'm not losing: just the aff). I realize none of those are attractive considerations.

But come on, that's a pretty serious leak of finances. banning means for life. Who knows how much EACH separate banned large player ... may have spent over the life of their account?

And yes: These are situations which SHOULD get separate attention/investigation, before the ban is put thru (because as most old timers know: any one of those banned accounts could be resulted in enough to support their lifestyle for literally years to come)

We haven't really heard any explanation other than what John said and that really doesn't make a lot of sense in respect to: IF Rival really does have it all going on in respect to their bonus abuser situation: why then are they banning anybody who is playing+losing large sums?

that surely looks to be the case when we view stats (of those that have been shared with me).


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the number of banned players we experience ... should be about the same rate across the board.

In other words (and I base some of this on John's words) that if Rival is

probably better at detecting bonus abuse

... then that would mean casinos using other software would have to have one of two things going on:
1) they'd have similar number of banned players (% wise)
2) they'd have unusually large number of chargebacks at the end of every month

because if players are abusers and they're not being banned then they are going to have chargebacks or have big wins. The fact that casinos exist ... tells us that there are going to be a considerable number of these abusers who do not win and therefore come end of the month they either have to pay what they owe (I believe that is what is called a legit player) ... or they will have chargebacks.

When I'm not seeing that same/similar rate of chargebacks or bannings at other sponsors: that tells me that things are messed up at Rival.

 

[Vladi]

if players are abusers and they're not being banned then they are going to have chargebacks or have big wins.

I am not sure what you're getting at with the chargebacks. When casinos say "bonus abuser" most commonly they mean someone who deposits and plays to pocket as much as the bonus money as possible with minimal risk to their own funds. In real terms it means someone who plays to the letter of the terms imposed by the casinos themselves and the casinos don't like it, but we'll ignore that issue for now as its been done to death.

It has nothing to do with chargebacks. A player can chargeback with or without a bonus after pocketing a win or making a loss and the affiliate still has to pay for it.

As for big wins, a typical "bonus abuser" shoots for many consistent small wins as they play games with as low house edge and/or variance as possible. In other words they are not so much gamblers as value seekers.

Now if Rival is better at detecting "bonus abusers" then why would you expect other casinos to have similar number of banned players? I would expect the number at other casinos to be lower, which seems to be consistent with what you are experiencing.

Also there is a difference between "banning" and "bonus banning", the latter means they become ineligible to receive bonuses so that part of the cashier screen remains empty. They can still play without bonuses. In the case of multi-accounters I assume they do indeed completely ban the duplicate accounts.

As for Rivals banning big players, that would be self-destructive as you say. But from my own experience big players are few and far between at Rivals due to low daily/weekly withdrawal limits that most have. I mean some have a $2000 per day withdrawal limit. Come on, that's smaller than what I would call a big player deposits. Who wants to deposit 10k, play for a few hours then try to withdraw 8k or 15k and find out they have a $2000 a day / $4000 a week limit. That is far more damaging to attempts to catch and retain big players than any bannings.

 

[Guard Dog]

As for Rivals banning big players, that would be self-destructive as you say. But from my own experience big players are few and far between at Rivals due to low daily/weekly withdrawal limits that most have. I mean some have a $2000 per day withdrawal limit. Come on, that's smaller than what I would call a big player deposits. Who wants to deposit 10k, play for a few hours then try to withdraw 8k or 15k and find out they have a $2000 a day / $4000 a week limit. That is far more damaging to attempts to catch and retain big players than any bannings.

Great post Vladi!

And, i think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. When I see high rollers at MGS, they are depositing $5-10k / day at times. That would be counter-productive at Rival Casinos because they could not ever catch up with that big win.

For example, I had one player that would spend $10-15k in a week. Might win $30k and cashout. Then would proceed to redeposit that amount over the next day or 2. It was constand deposit/withdrawal. With Rival - that's just not possible. The withdrawal limits make it that way.

Here are some examples:

Rockbet Group:
Vegas Days: The casino reserves the right to limit withdraws to $2000 per day and $4000 per week.
Rockbet:The casino reserves the right to limit withdraws to $2000 per day and $4000 per week.

LionSlots Affiliates:
Lion Slots: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2500 USD of their winnings per 7 day period.

Pantasia Group:
Pantasia: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.
Mayan Fortune: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

400 Affiliates:
Cocoa Casino: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period, $4000 USD per week and a maximum of $16000 USD per month.
ThisisVegas: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period and $4000 per week.
Paradise8: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.
Davinci's Gold: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

Superiorshare:
Superior: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $4000 USD of their winnings per 7 day period.

Slotocash Affiliates:
Slotocash: All payout's over $5,000 will be paid out via installments not exceeding $4,000 per week or as per mutual agreement with his/her personal account manager.

Regal Affiliates:
Vegas Regal: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

Slots of Fortune Affiliates:
Slots of Fortune: Players can withdraw up to $2000 per day and up to $4000 per week. Higher limits may apply for regular and VIP customers.

Simon Says Affiliates:
Simon Says: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

First Gaming Partners:
Slots Power: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of his/her winnings per 24 hour period.
Vanguard Casino: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2,000 USD of his/her winnings per 24 hour period up to $4,000 per week. A fee may be charged to the player to cover payments made by check.

Ruby Royal Affiliates:
Ruby Royal: A maximum withdrawal limit of 2,000.00 (USD, EUR, GBP) and 20,000 (RANDS) per 24 hour period and 4,000.00 (USD, EUR, GBP) and R40,000 (RANDS) per week will apply to all players.


There are, of course, more Rival's than that, but that is the gist of it If this is not accurate, then the casino needs to update their terms of use.

 

[rubyroyal]

Great post Vladi!

And, i think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. When I see high rollers at MGS, they are depositing $5-10k / day at times. That would be counter-productive at Rival Casinos because they could not ever catch up with that big win.

For example, I had one player that would spend $10-15k in a week. Might win $30k and cashout. Then would proceed to redeposit that amount over the next day or 2. It was constand deposit/withdrawal. With Rival - that's just not possible. The withdrawal limits make it that way.

Here are some examples:

Rockbet Group:
Vegas Days: The casino reserves the right to limit withdraws to $2000 per day and $4000 per week.
Rockbet:The casino reserves the right to limit withdraws to $2000 per day and $4000 per week.

LionSlots Affiliates:
Lion Slots: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2500 USD of their winnings per 7 day period.

Pantasia Group:
Pantasia: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.
Mayan Fortune: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

400 Affiliates:
Cocoa Casino: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period, $4000 USD per week and a maximum of $16000 USD per month.
ThisisVegas: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period and $4000 per week.
Paradise8: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.
Davinci's Gold: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

Superiorshare:
Superior: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $4000 USD of their winnings per 7 day period.

Slotocash Affiliates:
Slotocash: All payout's over $5,000 will be paid out via installments not exceeding $4,000 per week or as per mutual agreement with his/her personal account manager.

Regal Affiliates:
Vegas Regal: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

Slots of Fortune Affiliates:
Slots of Fortune: Players can withdraw up to $2000 per day and up to $4000 per week. Higher limits may apply for regular and VIP customers.

Simon Says Affiliates:
Simon Says: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

First Gaming Partners:
Slots Power: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of his/her winnings per 24 hour period.
Vanguard Casino: A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2,000 USD of his/her winnings per 24 hour period up to $4,000 per week. A fee may be charged to the player to cover payments made by check.

Ruby Royal Affiliates:
Ruby Royal: A maximum withdrawal limit of 2,000.00 (USD, EUR, GBP) and 20,000 (RANDS) per 24 hour period and 4,000.00 (USD, EUR, GBP) and R40,000 (RANDS) per week will apply to all players.


There are, of course, more Rival's than that, but that is the gist of it If this is not accurate, then the casino needs to update their terms of use.

Thanks for the post guys.

Just want to add my 2 cents here regarding withdrawal limits:

When it comes to limiting the withdrawal amounts on players, this is purely a risk issue, especially in the US. Take a look at a lot of the prominent RTG and Vegas Tech casinos, they too have withdrawal quotas in place.

We are all aware of the risk with processing US transactions, it seems this is the best way to try and minimize your exposure especially if say a processor goes down.

Big players are also aware that at the moment most Rival properties do not offer straight wire transfer as a withdrawal method. I know this is something that is on the radar so look out for changes on this coming soon.

 

[Vladi]

Great post guard dog. As for RubyRoyal - the explanation is valid, except that the low withdrawal limit policy applies to all players whether they live in a country with processing problems like the USA or not. So you're turning off Europeans, Asians and high rollers from anywhere else for that matter which seems a little counter-productive.

 

[rubyroyal]

Great post guard dog. As for RubyRoyal - the explanation is valid, except that the low withdrawal limit policy applies to all players whether they live in a country with processing problems like the USA or not. So you're turning off Europeans, Asians and high rollers from anywhere else for that matter which seems a little counter-productive.

Now a days, Europe and the rest of the world is becoming increasingly difficult.. If you look at some of the bigger Playtech operators they too have quotas on their withdrawal limits, found this term on Casino Tropez

8.4.4 You are aware of and agree that players are allowed to withdraw not more than $9,990/£9,990/€9,990/ R99,900/DKK74,990/NOK74,990/SEK99,900 per month. If the amount to be withdrawn is greater than $9,990/£9,990/€9,990/R99,900/DKK74,990/NOK74,990/SEK99,900, the remaining amount will be placed back to the player's account, allowing the player to withdraw additional funds the following month in accordance with this term.

"

 

[Engineer]

I'm curious, are deposits limited also?

 

[rubyroyal]

I'm curious, are deposits limited also?

Deposit limits are controlled by the processor i.e. Click2pay, Neteller, Moneybookers, Clickandbuy, Visa/Mastercard etc set limits on the amount PER a transaction..

 

[tryme1]

Now a days, Europe and the rest of the world is becoming increasingly difficult.

Difficult in what sense? Pointing to Casino Tropez's terms is not an indicator of 'difficulty' in the European market, particularly as Casino Tropez are hardly a big name brand over here.

If Ladbrokes or Coral or someone started limiting players to £10,000 withdrawals per month, they'd be laughed out of the country.

Let's stop pretending : this type of thing is a 'we-dont-have-the-bankroll-either-but-we-get-to-make-the-rules-and-protect-our-cashflow' decision.

 

[rubyroyal]

Difficult in what sense? Pointing to Casino Tropez's terms is not an indicator of 'difficulty' in the European market, particularly as Casino Tropez are hardly a big name brand over here.

If Ladbrokes or Coral or someone started limiting players to £10,000 withdrawals per month, they'd be laughed out of the country.

Let's stop pretending : this type of thing is a 'we-dont-have-the-bankroll-either-but-we-get-to-make-the-rules-and-protect-our-cashflow' decision.

Paying in and paying out gaming related transactions in Europe, particularly in France, Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and a number of other EURO countries. These countries seem to be going down the same road the US did with UIEGA and gaming related transactions. Even in South Africa its an issue, especially with the up and coming changes in the gaming legislation..

I tend to disagree regarding Casino Tropez. They are a very significant player in Europe, as a pure casino they are one of the bigger ones.. Looking at the William Hill group of casinos which are Playtech too, indeed they also have withdrawal quotas in place so too do the Party Gaming brands under Affclub.

I'm not sure you can put Ladbrokes, Coral etc in the same category as a pure casino. Bookmaking is a different business, a lot of cash or over the counter transactions.

That all being said, obviously some of these are business decisions relating to cash flow. I'm not doubting that for a second.

 

[Vladi]

I'm curious, are deposits limited also?

I would say they are indirectly affected by the withdrawal limits. No-one's going to plonk down a significant sum when they realise it is going to take weeks or even months just to withdraw their cash whether they win or lose.

Ruby, you're citing two of the worst roguish playtech groups out there with some of the most unfriendly terms (to players and affiliates) and reputations as evidence. You should pick some better examples, because you're setting the bar way too low.

8.4.4 You are aware of and agree that players are allowed to withdraw not more than $9,990/£9,990/€9,990/ R99,900/DKK74,990/NOK74,990/SEK99,900 per month. If the amount to be withdrawn is greater than $9,990/£9,990/€9,990/R99,900/DKK74,990/NOK74,990/SEK99,900, the remaining amount will be placed back to the player's account, allowing the player to withdraw additional funds the following month in accordance with this term.

If you think that's anything other than a policy verging on a scam designed to test a player's resolve to keep coming back and withdraw a significant amount each month without playing a bit more, then I don't know what to say.

Here's an example I know of. English Harbour group - they accept Americans and have also a small $5000 a week withdrawal limit. But if the player withdraws $20k it stays withdrawn and they pay the instalments without the playtech bullshit.

 

[inspiration]

This month is really awful for lots of regs but no depositing players, it actually seems most stopped playing.

So no big ;D here........sigh........

 

[Bonus Paradise]

This month is really awful for lots of regs but no depositing players, it actually seems most stopped playing.

So no big ;D here........sigh........

yup this month does not look good so far
and they few who are depositing are winning
so far I am in the negative at Vegas Regal
(getting used there slowly, I think from 6 months, I have sure 4 months a negative, Vegas Regal is giving away way to many free chips in my opinion, I had again one in my account today. sometimes I get 2 to 3 free chips in one week and did not deposit there since long time
)
SlotoCash I have again a winner too.
Need to check others over the weekend.

Not many new depositors so far this month at all the Rival Casinos

 

[Nicolas-Johnson]

Hi Bonus Paradise,

Sorry to hear your negative month. I do hope it picks up for you, most of our affiliates are in the positive, and even if you feel we are too generous, that same generocity is among the reasons we have a 50% re-deposit rate. Not something many casinos can boast about.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson